behavior of team - (Mar/15/2012 )

when someone feels racism from his responsible hierarchic? how to keep motivation if you are PhD student!
if the n+2 believes on you and proposes offers to you, and the n+1 is not agree???
how do you consider this? is it racism, in particular if you are foreigner!
you are proud to be working in lab of n+2! but when behavior of n+1 spontaneously show another pattern, another reaction not expected from him, how do you feel???

It is kind of hard to comment on whether or not this is racism with the info you have given.
Has n+1 (your supervisor) said anything racist to you?
If not, I think assuming it is racism simply because you are a foreigner is perhaps a bit unfair.

It is not unusual for people within a lab (even co-supervisors) to have some disagreements about the path your research should follow, or what you should be doing etc.

Can you give us more specifics?

luciana on Thu Mar 15 23:01:54 2012 said:

You are not really specific and to be honest, based on what you write here (and granted, we dont know the exact situation) you seem to be overreacting.

Racism? Because n+1 doesnt agree with you and n+2 ?

yes, i think im not too specific here, because i couldnt explain well the situation!
But, im sure that its not only matter of disagreement, its even more ...
since the n+1 limits opportunity you could have from n+2, and even prefer to give to others and not to you!!
how could you consider this ?

Well if the n+1 is giving other people opportunities before you, it could be a number of things (and again by your post it is impossible to know).

1. your work might not be up to standard, so the n+1 doesn't think you are capable or deserving of the opportunity

2. n+1 has a personal issue with n+2 and is therefore biased against who n+2 prefers

3. the other people who got the opportunity have been around longer/ are more qualified

4. n+1 has a personal issue with you (not based on race)

5. n+1 has a personal issue with you (that is based on race)

6. the opportunities that n+2 was offering you were not his/hers to offer, and they have overstepped the mark with n+1

7. n+1 and n+2 have a good working relationship, but disagree on certain points and so the n+1 pulls rank


I could go on and on, but if you can't give us the full story, we would just be guessing.....

luciana on Tue Mar 20 22:07:31 2012 said:

I still cant find any racism here..
What you describe is very common..
if the money comes fom n+1 for example, then yeah, he can tell who he wants or not.
Or maybe n+1 is the boss.. so in the end he decides and maybe he thinks others are better then you.. (+ keep in mind: if you are working with n+2 and not with n+1, then its normal for n+1 to give others the benefit, if n+1 works with the others, if n+1 doesnt know you that good..)

I do wonder: did this happen one time? Because for all we know, it might just have happned one time that n+2 offered you an oppertunity and n+1 said no..
based on one such thing... I mean...


Its Leelee allready stated
Its impossible to say..

unless there is a flagrant example of "racism" or bad behaviour.. its just not possible to state its racisms.. altough, at this time and age.. someone is allready a racist for the smallest thing.. (often it has nothing to do with being racists, but people are pretty fast with "pulling the racism card").
I am not saying this is the case here, but as long as you dont give specific examples its hard to tell..

For all we know there is a problem between n+2 and n+1 and it has nothing to do with you at all.. you are just a victim of their problem.

The main question you need to ask yourself is this: will I not be able to get my PhD because of this problem? ...
Yeah, you might lose some good oppertunities and yeah, it might be stressfull for you.. but as long as you are "save" when it comes to gettting that PhD.. its rather "ok".. Because if you do decide to act against it.. and you start questioning others or go to some guidance people with the fact you think that n+1 is a racist... you do start a "big" thing...
Even if n+1 is racistic against you, if you are still able to get your PhD.. concider it very carefully whether you want to take action.. because a case around racisms can become bigger or worse then you think and it can be (mentally) very hard and also for the future it can make/break peoples lives.


PS. n+1 and n+2 ... I mean... couldnt you just have said person A and person B or something.. are you a math student or ?

n+2 is the boss, the head, the leader!
as for n+1, its the person more closer to me, but, is working for n+2 too, and of course they have good relationship. he knows well my capabilities and my work. but, since one recent discussion between us about positions and salary raise. so, he was a bit disagree and doesnt want that the leader thinks about me..

luciana on Wed Mar 21 21:12:25 2012 said:

Ok, but not you are comming with an important "detail" ==> argument about salary and position...
its obvious that this is an important influence in the entire discussion... We werent there, we cant tell what happened.. but its possible you said something wrong or n+1 took something bad...

Maybe you have said something to upset n+1 and now he is finding all kind of things to irritate you...

You still very very unspecific and no one here can tell you what to do really..

We have bits and pieces of information.. nothing more.
But the discussion about salary and position could be crucial here... Maybe n+1 feels that you are not gratefull enough by trying to put yourself "higher up the ladder" while he is still there... (who knows, maybe he doesnt even make more money then you, or just a bit and the idea that you would earn the same as him or more... I mean...)
Maybe n+1 feels that you are "acting" too much as someone who allready has a PhD .. maybe he feels "threatened" by you.. He has a PhD (I assume?) and you not.. and he wants to keep that distinction maybe? Or maybe he got a bit upset that n+2 offers you something he likes to do too? or?

+ what I dont get is: discussion about salary raise, during a PhD ??? I dont get this.
I dont know what system you have over there... but a raise during a PhD asked by you??? I dont understand that.. In my country the pay is regulated by the governement (its in the end the people/governement that pay and we have fixed payscales) and you cant ask for a raise, the raise comes "by itself" according to regulations.

I think you got the point !
n+1 doesnt make money as I do, since I have a an external fellowship higher, even Im Phd student.
and according to the rules of the country where I am, the n+1 got few money and has already PhD and is senior postdoc, somehow supervising me! but, im in my last year of PhD and n+2 wants that I remain for postdoc so, proposes me to apply for the opportunity. but the n+1 disagree since, he preferred to apply instead of me ..

the problem now, is that I continue my work, but I see that n+1 changed its behavior with me. I decided to dont think too much but just continue doing my best in my experiments and, avoid the n+1