IdIoMs - join us (Feb/28/2008 )
QUOTE (TheSquire @ Mar 18 2008, 12:00 PM)
QUOTE (hobglobin @ Mar 18 2008, 12:43 PM)
QUOTE (casandra @ Mar 18 2008, 06:35 PM)
The Cambridge dictionary offers this definition of idiom:
"a group of words whose meaning considered as a unit is different from the meanings of each word considered separately."
This is good Esq. I know that it can get confusing...esp between idioms and metaphors and some expressions can be both i.e. if there's a metaphoric equation...so what would you call "a cat in gloves"..a metaphor, extended metaphor (allegory?), just a weird grammatical construction?
casandra
"a group of words whose meaning considered as a unit is different from the meanings of each word considered separately."
This is good Esq. I know that it can get confusing...esp between idioms and metaphors and some expressions can be both i.e. if there's a metaphoric equation...so what would you call "a cat in gloves"..a metaphor, extended metaphor (allegory?), just a weird grammatical construction?
casandra
I stick with 'phrase'
, but I have no idea if it's correct. 'Saying', 'figure of speech' perhaps? Too many terms for such an easy thing. 
As best as I can tell, "A cat in gloves catches no mice" is once of Benjamin Franklin's proverbs from Poor Richard's Almanack. There are a number of ways to take it, generally along the lines of "making a cat easier to live with removes the reason for keeping the cat in the first place," but I'm sure there are many others. The phrase isn't supposed to be taken literally, since only a horrible, horrible person would put gloves on a cat.
Lots of different categories of quick statements fit under the category of 'saying'. Idiom, proverb, aphorism, and maxim all quickly come to mind, and there are many others. All of hobglobin's suggested terms fit for the "cat in gloves" phrase.
But aren't we all in the business of precision and quantification
....phrase...it can't get any vaguer and more all-encompassing than that? it could be a saying if you take the whole sentence but "cat in gloves"? Well maybe a figure of speech... yes or figurative language but why can't it also be an idiom? just asking
casandra
-casandra-
QUOTE (casandra @ Mar 18 2008, 08:21 PM)
QUOTE (TheSquire @ Mar 18 2008, 12:00 PM)
QUOTE (hobglobin @ Mar 18 2008, 12:43 PM)
QUOTE (casandra @ Mar 18 2008, 06:35 PM)
The Cambridge dictionary offers this definition of idiom:
"a group of words whose meaning considered as a unit is different from the meanings of each word considered separately."
This is good Esq. I know that it can get confusing...esp between idioms and metaphors and some expressions can be both i.e. if there's a metaphoric equation...so what would you call "a cat in gloves"..a metaphor, extended metaphor (allegory?), just a weird grammatical construction?
casandra
"a group of words whose meaning considered as a unit is different from the meanings of each word considered separately."
This is good Esq. I know that it can get confusing...esp between idioms and metaphors and some expressions can be both i.e. if there's a metaphoric equation...so what would you call "a cat in gloves"..a metaphor, extended metaphor (allegory?), just a weird grammatical construction?
casandra
I stick with 'phrase'
, but I have no idea if it's correct. 'Saying', 'figure of speech' perhaps? Too many terms for such an easy thing. As best as I can tell, "A cat in gloves catches no mice" is once of Benjamin Franklin's proverbs from Poor Richard's Almanack. There are a number of ways to take it, generally along the lines of "making a cat easier to live with removes the reason for keeping the cat in the first place," but I'm sure there are many others. The phrase isn't supposed to be taken literally, since only a horrible, horrible person would put gloves on a cat.
Lots of different categories of quick statements fit under the category of 'saying'. Idiom, proverb, aphorism, and maxim all quickly come to mind, and there are many others. All of hobglobin's suggested terms fit for the "cat in gloves" phrase.
But aren't we all in the business of precision and quantification
....phrase...it can't get any vaguer and more all-encompassing than that? it could be a saying if you take the whole sentence but "cat in gloves"? Well maybe a figure of speech... yes or figurative language but why can't it also be an idiom? just asking
casandra
We are or should be in this business. Anyhow grammar and linguistics are pure man-made arbitrarily systems without logic, but many inconsistencies and imprecise definitions. And it is changing and has momentous historic background. It resembles somewhat a religion
. Just to be mean and imprecise. Conclusion: It is not worth debating, accept or ignore.
-hobglobin-
so, can i say an idiom is that phrase which contains words with a meaning, but as a whole,it has a different meaning!!? 
casandra, what do u mean by Esq. !! 
-strawberry-
QUOTE (strawberry @ Mar 19 2008, 02:44 AM)
so, can i say an idiom is that phrase which contains words with a meaning, but as a whole,it has a different meaning!!?
That's actually about right: "A cat in gloves" means just that, even though it's a strange thought (and cruel to the cat), while an idiom such as "raining cats and dogs" does not involve cats and dogs falling from the sky as precipitation, just lots of merely mundane rain.
-TheSquire-
QUOTE (strawberry @ Mar 19 2008, 12:44 AM)
casandra, what do u mean by Esq. !!
Hi strawberry,
check this out good ol wiki but I should'nt have used it to directly address TheSquire
but I'm pretty much sure he ranks above a gentleman so I hope he wouldn't mind. BTW .... the term is as imprecise as hobglobin's language and his ranking????.....
casandra
-casandra-
QUOTE (casandra @ Mar 19 2008, 06:37 PM)
QUOTE (strawberry @ Mar 19 2008, 12:44 AM)
casandra, what do u mean by Esq. !!
Hi strawberry,
check this out good ol wiki but I should'nt have used it to directly address TheSquire
but I'm pretty much sure he ranks above a gentleman so I hope he wouldn't mind. BTW .... the term is as imprecise as hobglobin's language and his ranking????..... casandra
Low, low...just to be precise.
-hobglobin-
QUOTE (hobglobin @ Mar 20 2008, 04:19 AM)
QUOTE (casandra @ Mar 19 2008, 06:37 PM)
QUOTE (strawberry @ Mar 19 2008, 12:44 AM)
casandra, what do u mean by Esq. !!
Hi strawberry,
check this out good ol wiki but I should'nt have used it to directly address TheSquire
but I'm pretty much sure he ranks above a gentleman so I hope he wouldn't mind. BTW .... the term is as imprecise as hobglobin's language and his ranking????..... casandra
Low, low...just to be precise.
the lowest of the low or the low man of the totem pole...what`s the matter...are you running low on your bashes and teases?
-casandra-
QUOTE (hobo @ Mar 20 2008, 08:17 PM)
Low, low...just to be precise.
QUOTE (casandra @ Mar 20 2008, 08:17 PM)
the lowest of the low or the low man of the totem pole...what`s the matter...are you running low on your bashes and teases?
Lying on the ground. Full cover against flying splinters.
-hobglobin-