IdIoMs - join us (Feb/28/2008 )
i like this idiom
a cat in gloves catches no mice
it makes me think again of some issues
-strawberry-
QUOTE (strawberry @ Mar 17 2008, 08:52 AM)
i like this idiom
a cat in gloves catches no mice
it makes me think again of some issues
a cat in gloves catches no mice
it makes me think again of some issues
That's not an idiom - there's no knowledge outside of the statement needed to understand it. It's more of a proverb.
-TheSquire-
QUOTE (TheSquire @ Mar 17 2008, 08:14 AM)
QUOTE (strawberry @ Mar 17 2008, 08:52 AM)
i like this idiom
a cat in gloves catches no mice
it makes me think again of some issues
a cat in gloves catches no mice
it makes me think again of some issues
That's not an idiom - there's no knowledge outside of the statement needed to understand it. It's more of a proverb.
like all we need to know is "a cat in gloves" and nothing more outside of that to understand the expression...Squire..I'm not so sure about that... -casandra-
You can figure it out from the words in the sentence. Cats use their claws to catch their prey, usually rodents and small birds, and putting gloves over their paws would hinder that. You may have to think a bit, but as long as you know what everything in the sentence is, you'll get it eventually. In contrast, "Raining cats and dogs" makes absolutely no sense based on the words in the sentence, making it an idiom.
-TheSquire-
QUOTE (TheSquire @ Mar 18 2008, 07:32 AM)
You can figure it out from the words in the sentence. Cats use their claws to catch their prey, usually rodents and small birds, and putting gloves over their paws would hinder that. You may have to think a bit, but as long as you know what everything in the sentence is, you'll get it eventually. In contrast, "Raining cats and dogs" makes absolutely no sense based on the words in the sentence, making it an idiom.
Esq...isn't an idiom ..a group of words, an expression....something that can't be taken/translated literally..."a cat in gloves" oh yeah I'd like to see one
and in fairness to strawberry..try googling it first....I might be playing fast and loose with my idioms...
-casandra-
QUOTE (casandra @ Mar 18 2008, 09:50 AM)
Esq...isn't an idiom ..a group of words, an expression....something that can't be taken/translated literally..."a cat in gloves" oh yeah I'd like to see one
and in fairness to strawberry..try googling it first....I might be playing fast and loose with my idioms...
and in fairness to strawberry..try googling it first....I might be playing fast and loose with my idioms...
From the Oxford English Dictionary entry for "idiom":
QUOTE (OED)
3. a. A form of expression, grammatical construction, phrase, etc., peculiar to a language; a peculiarity of phraseology approved by the usage of a language, and often having a signification other than its grammatical or logical one.
Metaphors, similies, and many other grammatical constructions can't be taken literally, but idioms make absolutely no sense based upon the words which make them up, and have a separate definition as a phrase.
-TheSquire-
QUOTE (TheSquire @ Mar 18 2008, 09:17 AM)
QUOTE (casandra @ Mar 18 2008, 09:50 AM)
Esq...isn't an idiom ..a group of words, an expression....something that can't be taken/translated literally..."a cat in gloves" oh yeah I'd like to see one
and in fairness to strawberry..try googling it first....I might be playing fast and loose with my idioms...
and in fairness to strawberry..try googling it first....I might be playing fast and loose with my idioms...
From the Oxford English Dictionary entry for "idiom":
QUOTE (OED)
3. a. A form of expression, grammatical construction, phrase, etc., peculiar to a language; a peculiarity of phraseology approved by the usage of a language, and often having a signification other than its grammatical or logical one.
Metaphors, similies, and many other grammatical constructions can't be taken literally, but idioms make absolutely no sense based upon the words which make them up, and have a separate definition as a phrase.
The Cambridge dictionary offers this definition of idiom:
"a group of words whose meaning considered as a unit is different from the meanings of each word considered separately."
This is good Esq. I know that it can get confusing...esp between idioms and metaphors and some expressions can be both i.e. if there's a metaphoric equation...so what would you call "a cat in gloves"..a metaphor, extended metaphor (allegory?), just a weird grammatical construction?
casandra
-casandra-
QUOTE (casandra @ Mar 18 2008, 06:35 PM)
The Cambridge dictionary offers this definition of idiom:
"a group of words whose meaning considered as a unit is different from the meanings of each word considered separately."
This is good Esq. I know that it can get confusing...esp between idioms and metaphors and some expressions can be both i.e. if there's a metaphoric equation...so what would you call "a cat in gloves"..a metaphor, extended metaphor (allegory?), just a weird grammatical construction?
casandra
"a group of words whose meaning considered as a unit is different from the meanings of each word considered separately."
This is good Esq. I know that it can get confusing...esp between idioms and metaphors and some expressions can be both i.e. if there's a metaphoric equation...so what would you call "a cat in gloves"..a metaphor, extended metaphor (allegory?), just a weird grammatical construction?
casandra
I stick with 'phrase'
, but I have no idea if it's correct. 'Saying', 'figure of speech' perhaps? Too many terms for such an easy thing. 
-hobglobin-
I work with a post-doc from Germany who wants to know as much slang English as he can. I teach him idioms and says all the time and he comes to me with phrases he doesn't understand. So far his favorite saying is: "Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned".
-rkay447-
QUOTE (hobglobin @ Mar 18 2008, 12:43 PM)
QUOTE (casandra @ Mar 18 2008, 06:35 PM)
The Cambridge dictionary offers this definition of idiom:
"a group of words whose meaning considered as a unit is different from the meanings of each word considered separately."
This is good Esq. I know that it can get confusing...esp between idioms and metaphors and some expressions can be both i.e. if there's a metaphoric equation...so what would you call "a cat in gloves"..a metaphor, extended metaphor (allegory?), just a weird grammatical construction?
casandra
"a group of words whose meaning considered as a unit is different from the meanings of each word considered separately."
This is good Esq. I know that it can get confusing...esp between idioms and metaphors and some expressions can be both i.e. if there's a metaphoric equation...so what would you call "a cat in gloves"..a metaphor, extended metaphor (allegory?), just a weird grammatical construction?
casandra
I stick with 'phrase'
, but I have no idea if it's correct. 'Saying', 'figure of speech' perhaps? Too many terms for such an easy thing. As best as I can tell, "A cat in gloves catches no mice" is once of Benjamin Franklin's proverbs from Poor Richard's Almanack. There are a number of ways to take it, generally along the lines of "making a cat easier to live with removes the reason for keeping the cat in the first place," but I'm sure there are many others. The phrase isn't supposed to be taken literally, since only a horrible, horrible person would put gloves on a cat.
Lots of different categories of quick statements fit under the category of 'saying'. Idiom, proverb, aphorism, and maxim all quickly come to mind, and there are many others. All of hobglobin's suggested terms fit for the "cat in gloves" phrase.
-TheSquire-