Troubled at school about courses - Deeply troubled (May/31/2008 )

hello, everyone, i'm a second year college student in clinical laboratory science in Taiwan.

The thing is that i have been troubled regarding the curriculum and the way to learn knowledge.
With the little vocabulary i have, i hope i could expressed my thoughts clearly to you.

i would like to start with the curriculum part

In Taiwan, clinical laboratory science as well as medical doctor is taught as standard university curricum instead of post B.S programs, 4 yrs for clinical laboratory science and 7 for medical doctor.
however, in our department, basic science, including calculus, foreign language, general chemistry, general biology, analytical chemistry, and organic chemistry, and some other are
taught within the first year. and the forth year is completely reserved to clinical courses.
And in the second and the third year, courses like microbiology and immunology, pathology, hematology, as well as genetics, molecular biology, are being arranged in our curriculum.

At first i was thinking about posting the list of our courses, but i think i'll do that if someone is interested in details, so not to disturbed you with the complicated list.

The thing is that, though the department's wish is probably to teach students to be well suited for being a medical technologist or clinical laboratory scientist, or other academic or research positions,
it's in my opinion that it's too much to sqeeze in so many courses in just 4yrs.

The little time it has, i just think the courses are not taughted correctly.

i have never been abroad, and i haven't attended to any classes in other schools, so i couldn't make comparisons myself.
but i would like to know how the courses in other schools are taught, medical schools in the US especially.

i already took courses in microbiology, immunology, analytical chemistry, organic chemistry, biochemistry.
i'll just describe these in details,

Microbiology and immunology are taught as one course, and is taught in only one semester, and so is analytical chemistry, organic chemistry, and biochemistry.

In microbiology and immunology, the course is taught by various teacher that each topic as given a class by the teacher in that field.

In one semester, i must say they worked hard to teach as much as they can, and i really don't deny that more information is sometimes better, but many and most of the teachers and the TAs, their focus give
me a sense that they only want us to pass tests, get the credits, instead of having a bigger picture though i must say that i don't know what that would be, but i certainly don't think that the way i'm describing below is the only one.

the reason why i think so is that as they teach, i just don't think they are focusing enough on big pictures but on various detail molecules.

in immunology, they focus alot on what molecules are involved in what mechanisms, and they tests on it that i should memorize it and be able write it out in the test.
and it's the same in microbiology, well, we teach mainly medical microbiology, and teachers want us the memorize the names, associated diseases alot of things.

what i feel is that, they like to go into very detailed things and tests on it based on the ground that they know it and they must likely very familiar with it so they think a student should know it.
why not? it's most likely to be the very thing that their research or academic life focuses on.
but asking a student who is fresh to the field to be able to get hold to all the things in such short term i just don't feel it's the right way.

the moment they think those small molecules are very very important and would like us to memorize, the students just memorize, instead of going after perhaps a bigger picture in microbiology or immunology,
and as far as i know they most likely memorize to just to pass the test, and after that, is no longer needed.
And i must say that it is just memorization when it comes to molecules, the full physical chemica properties are not fully exploited, and many of which the structure even hasn't been decipher.

One may say that what else should we teach in microbiology, those things are needed to be memorized.
but i think that as a student i would like to pursue a career as scientist, i just don't think that sqeezing all those things into my mind is good for it, neither for cultivating a mind nor giving knowledge.
They don't provide me any insights or feelings, the entire course is to me like just a bunch of teachers and students both not wanting to really understand the science but just to pass the test and get the
credits.

and these also happens in other one semester courses.
with the little time, after the courses i often feel empty.
i would really like to read textbook papers, other books regarding to anything, but with the little time and tests to pass, i just couldn't actually get full picture of any subject.

Passing the test as a goal in schools is not a fresh idea in Taiwan education system, i have had enough from junior high to senior high, and in the freshman year of college.
i just had enough, i don't want to be a student who goes on learning things to just pass the tests that teachers think we should pass.
and the tests are based on things that the teachers have been familiar with for years, they would memorize without any endeavor because it's their everyday life, but are those things necessary for a student?

and these are the very reasons that i'm troubled, i need to memorize things to pass tests, and those things would most like to be forgotten after a short term of time.
And with little time and pressing schedule of a course, i just don't have a mind to fully understand any subject.

i would really need a opinion from other people.

i've been to numerous teachers in my department.
and some of them just think that memorizing things and pass the test is a must-need for a course.
And one of them agreed that i hold a different aspect, she thinks that there is a game rule that still applys to everyone that is to pass the tests and not to be flunked.

I know the latter one is the reality.
But i think i just really had enough, the rage i have has troubled me now, i just can't study on microbiology and immunology because a subject that i really interested in is being taught in a disgusting way just makes me tired of it.

i just feel that a test was supposed a way to push student to learn new things, but now, it's not, many things are being squeezed into our brains to just pass the test, and those things go away afterward.
A couple months later, there's just nothing.

and i don't really learn much.

I really want to study the science, but i'm afraid that my mind would be blinded if i goes on the same path that others do, dealing tests to just get the credits, instead of trying to get a full picture of a subject.

i think knowledge building is a life-time process, and what i'm learning now is the basics science, yet i'm getting little grib of it.
if i don't hold hard on these basics, how could i be able to seek a better furture in understanding science, a building with weak basis would eventually fall.

i would really like some opinions, and views for your positions.

is it really my own problems?

what is it like in other schools?
Thank you for reading through my badly phrased words.

You are not the first one in your country, and most of the rest of the world, to get a degree by learning some seemingly useless things, memorizing, trembling on the eve of tests and wondering-frustratingly- how does this help being a good scientist.

Science that you will do will be advancement. Science that you learn now is already done, and anything that is already done, doesn't pose a challange is boring. But it is a necessary part.

Almost everything that you learn in a school helps. They don't design courses for individual students and they don't know what kind of research you will do in future. So, they teach a bit of everything. Although it seems unnecessary to learn, most of it is helpful at some point or another.

Remember that a bulding needs a broad and solid foundation, which spends all its life buried deep within the ground.

boring things are everywhere..
we must learn to be uesd to them ..

How do you get a "bigger picture" of anything without knowing the basics?
How do you get the basics without memorising them?
You are in the second year now - you can't expect to see a lot of connections already.

You mention immunology and microbiology a few times - if you want to know more in these topics, read a textbooks or focus on these topics as a graduate student later.

Yes
I guess i'll have to get the basics before connecting all the dots.

But with the teachers trying to teach everything in the class and a big subject in just one semester, yet, require us to focus some details which is their own research fields.

They are not focusing on every details but more often their own field.

I want to know is it like this all over the world?
with such a huge load yet little time in a semester?

With the time pressing, reading through ONE textbook is impossible let alone other books or journal papers, and since so much detailed things are becoming the questions in the tests, forced memorizing come kicking in, and after the tests everything is forgotten.

and since most of us don't read through textbooks, there is really poor structure.


Yes, it has been clear to me that i think i can just even work harder to read through the books by sleeping less.
but i feel it's really difficult to just keep up with the courses.

Thank you all

I can tell you that my education in Europe was exactly like what you described, exactly. And I don't know if it was a good thing.

I memorized tons of things and did really well in the exams, but as you said, I think many times I missed the big picture, because I was just so worried about the endless molecules and pathways and dimerizations that would be in the exams. Years later, I see that quite often I can't remember much about those same courses I did so well in the exams!

Maybe I just have a bad memory , but I agree with you, it would be nice to have a stronger focus on the big picture. But I think university is like that anywhere, and although we can't remember many things, if we ever go back to study them, it is much easier to learn again. And we know where to look for it.

Immunology can be a perfect example, with so many "letters" and names and little things to "memorize". But it's a fascinating subject! If you find a good textbook and try not to attain only to the little letters, but instead ask yourself after each paragraph, "so what does it mean in the big picture? Why is it useful to the organism, to have this kind of reaction?" etc, it will help you a lot.

Also, many times you won't be able to get excellent grades in every course in your university as you use to do in school. There is so much to study that maybe just a passing mark will have to do. The most important thing is to not lose your enthusiasm and love for learning and for science in the process, even if it feels overwhelming right now. And try to get "hands-on" experience as soon as possible (eg, volunteer to work a couple of hours a day in a lab), that will make everything more fun and give you more reasons to go to the textbooks, other than just to study for an exam.

Another thing – if you have bad teachers that lead you into hating a subject – see if you can skip some of their classes and study for yourself. (I know some ppl wouldn’t agree with this, but...) You will have to be very disciplined for that, and need to be sure you can do the job. But I experienced that in the past: classes that were so badly taught that it was useless to go to them, and made me *hate* the subject afterwards. I would instead go to the library and study by myself. Later, I would take a look on a friend's notes just to make sure I was studying the same stuff that was being taught in the class, and to get a feeling of what would be in the exam.

You will still have to do the exams and play the game, there is no way out. But you can try to find your own ways to make it more fun and more valuable.

PS. If in trouble with immunology, try a textbook by Abbas. It is extremely interesting to read. This is something that always helped me a lot, too: finding a textbook that is well written and pleasant to read. Some are just impossible to read, boring and confusing. Maybe just changing authors can give you a new light and much more pleasure in studying a certain subject.

Thank you very much, Julianne

it has appeared to me that there is really nothing i can do except find my own way out in the learning process, but i guess these things just overwhelmed me and rendered me quite powerless.
Especially that, when the teachers want to teach a lot of things but in the same time changing the courses time from 2 semester to one semester, just makes me feel getting too much details on things of their interests yet little of overall perspective since the teachers skip a lot of things.

And to be honest, i have been getting bad scores on some subjects, partly i must admit is because of the feeling, i think angry on courses, makes me confused, and i really haven't done well on my part which i think is to try my best to read through the textbooks despite it'll be taking all time.


I do think textbooks are important, and i often like to compare as many textbooks i can get from the college library, and actually this is one of the reasons i am confused, because i feel different authors sometimes show quite different sight toward the same topic, and i just think these differences should be one of the things teachers teach.

i think to me the job right now is to get back the patience on reading books.

I really thank you for your advice and your experience.
really appreciated

The list of courses you provided and the arrangement seems pretty similar to other medical laboratory science course outlines that I have seen. It might seem like a lot of info, but the basics must be taught before any further understanding can be gained, not to mention that fact that if you are working in a clinical lab or as a doctor you should have a thorough knowledge of the tests and meaning of results as they are needed.

I must add that actual application of the tests and diagnoses in a real world situation will make things much clearer once you start to work outside of uni.