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Why a bat is the only flying mammal? - (Dec/04/2007 )

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i don't have the time to look it up...but...

does anyone know if they've decided if dinosaurs were birds or reptiles?
and, were there any mammalian dinosaurs?

i have to admit, that my knowledge of prehistoric ancestors came from watching the flintstones on tv.
it's early morning, and i've only had one coffee, brain not on yet.

V

-vetticus3-

QUOTE (Madrius @ Dec 6 2007, 02:11 PM)
May I add that the birds were flying before the mammals had even begun to evolve into different ways. So the "air" niche was probably already taken by the "reptilian birds" (birds ancestors), leaving no real places for any flying mammals.

I guess having too many muscles devoted to the flying function would make them even less advantagous to fight with other species, am I wrong on this?

-genehunter-1-

QUOTE (vetticus3 @ Dec 6 2007, 10:27 PM)
i don't have the time to look it up...but...

does anyone know if they've decided if dinosaurs were birds or reptiles?
and, were there any mammalian dinosaurs?

i have to admit, that my knowledge of prehistoric ancestors came from watching the flintstones on tv.
it's early morning, and i've only had one coffee, brain not on yet.

V


As best as can be said now, birds are decended from a subgroup found within dinosauria. So depending on which dinosaur group you look at, you can see more or fewer bird like features... feathers, high growth rate, constant body temperature. Perhaps it is best to think of birds being the last remaining twig of the dinosauria... a single example of the what was a great diversity of body features.

Dinosaurs are one class of life and mammals are a total different class. There certain were endotherm (warm blooded) dinosaurs. However no mammal was a dinosaur as no sunflower is a human. Mammals did coexist with dinosaur, growing as large as 1m long and even feeding on baby dinosaurs (As a fossil of R. robustus demonstrated).

-perneseblue-

as i remember it the whole feathery dinosaur thing was a leap of faith on behalf of a few documentary crews

nothing to be taken too seriously

dom

-Dominic-

actually, there have been discoveries of 'dinosaur' fossil with feathers attached. However, condition that allows impression of feathers to be maintained, (eg stagnant lake with fine sediment) only favours fossilisation of small animals. Thus these examples of feathered 'dinosaurs' have been debatable as very primative birds have many dinosaurian features, so these feathered dinosaurs may have been very primative birds. (Also there was a point of contention if the dino 'feathers' should actually be called feathers... as some of these feathers of these dino has more resemblence with hair... they only have a semi stiff central shaft.)

All that and such.. until this discovery was made.... which indicates "feathers" also existed on larger animals. So for at least some families of dinos, they had feathers.

quill knobs on velociraptor

-perneseblue-

QUOTE (aimikins @ Dec 5 2007, 07:51 PM)
I keep jumping off cliffs, but my DNA refuses to change and grow me some wings.... rolleyes.gif



but maybe your DNA changed and you have very resistant legs ? wink.gif

-Missele-

QUOTE
I don't have the time to look it up...but...

does anyone know if they've decided if dinosaurs were birds or reptiles?
and, were there any mammalian dinosaurs?

i have to admit, that my knowledge of prehistoric ancestors came from watching the flintstones on tv.
it's early morning, and i've only had one coffee, brain not on yet.


Wikipedia list 17 species of dinosaurs with feathers. And the Archeopteryx was estimated as a 'missing' link' between dinosaurs and birds, having features of both groups. I guess this fossil (with several collection sites) is still one of the best clues for this hypothesis, but - as everything in archaeology - debatable.

QUOTE
I guess, flying animals could not become dominant forms due to severe size limilation they can reach.
There are also 'big' Chiroptera, the Megachiroptera or 'Flying Foxes'. They reach up to 40 cm and a wingspan of 150 cm (wikipedia data). But with this size perfect prey for raptors.

Gliding/parachuting animals are existent in many classes: mammals (squirrels, possums, colugos (Dermoptera)), pisces (various fish species), reptiles (snakes, lizards), amphibians (frogs) and several others (some estimate also cats as parachuting laugh.gif )
But all this species are actually not really flying.

QUOTE
I keep jumping off cliffs, but my DNA refuses to change and grow me some wings.... rolleyes.gif


You need some Batman genes. But he is a abnormal mutation, I guess wink.gif ?

-hobglobin-

actually, I'm hoping to adapt like spiderman. all this radiation in the lab, and never a spider around to bite me when I'm doing a labeling - then I wouldn't need to fly

seriously, though, there would need to be a reason to make such a dramatic adaptation. even if there were space in the niche - and who knows? maybe WNV will clear a big % of birds from the earth before it runs its course - there has to be a reason beyond room in the ecosystem

a mutation would have to be favored for some reason. for example, gliding squirrels may have evolved the ability to glide in order to escape predators, and to expand their territory. there needs to be an unmet need for dramatic change to happen.

maybe I'd grow wings if I ran out of food and had to adapt to survive ohmy.gif if I got hungry enough, flight might seem more probable

-aimikins-

QUOTE (aimikins @ Dec 7 2007, 11:31 PM)
actually, I'm hoping to adapt like spiderman. all this radiation in the lab, and never a spider around to bite me when I'm doing a labeling - then I wouldn't need to fly

seriously, though, there would need to be a reason to make such a dramatic adaptation. even if there were space in the niche - and who knows? maybe WNV will clear a big % of birds from the earth before it runs its course - there has to be a reason beyond room in the ecosystem

a mutation would have to be favored for some reason. for example, gliding squirrels may have evolved the ability to glide in order to escape predators, and to expand their territory. there needs to be an unmet need for dramatic change to happen.

maybe I'd grow wings if I ran out of food and had to adapt to survive ohmy.gif if I got hungry enough, flight might seem more probable



"If men had wings and bore black feathers, few of them would be clever enough to be crows." -- Rev. Henry Ward Beecher, mid 1800s

-hobglobin-

i really *really* want to work with the radiation that gives you superpowers. alas, it's no longer in stock. sad.gif

V

-vetticus3-

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