Chemtrails in the skies - The chemtrail controversy (Nov/20/2007 )
you say "no mockery on this site" yet you refer to us as "easily fooled livestock"?
i guess if we disagree then we are mocking you but you are not mocking us.
i know that the various governments of this world have performed illegal experiments on their citizens (it's been in all the newspapers), but you have to look at the scale of what you are proposing. even the government would have difficulty maintaining secrecy on such a project for the amount of time that they would have had to have been doing it based on the degree of infection that you claim.
as for steve mcqueen, cured? he died of a heart attack after unconventional treatment for metastatic mesothelioma in mexico. nobody cured him.
any one can represent themself as someone or something that they are not. i would check credentials before i would believe something like what your doctor kelly says.
i may sound cynical but i think it is more educated than cynical. also, most scientists don't take things at face value but would rather find the truth.
We shouldn't base the credibility of what I've said here and what others have documented on whether or not Steve was killed by cancer or at the hands of someone in Mexico. Someone killed him.
I've reserched what Dr. kelly and others have said about this subject and found many reasons to believe in a population reduction program within every country. Give yourself a chance to add up everything new that your've read, this site just went up. 
if you've researched this then give us some references. some guy claiming to be a doctor of someone who was "killed" as evidence is suspect, at best.
if you want to convince us then show us your work, don't just keep repeating the same things, attacking doubters and shrugging off refuted "evidence".
Oh boy. dave2, please. This reminds me of another poster here with his "unique" essays.
Synthetic pathogens. Artificial life!
Ah, how I wish it were true. Really sometimes I wish I could make my own bug. The best we can do make a copy of virus. (Polio - 7kb ). At this time point a pathogen can be 'man made' as far as a dog can be man made. Selective breeding (with a touch of genetic engineering). Indeed something as 'simple' optimising a function like fermentation, making ethanol from sugar is difficult. Or even simpler making bacteria grow faster or make more protein, nearly 60 years of work and it is still a work in progress. So for making artificial life, one day it will be here, I am sure of it, but not today. Kindly name two diseases that was though to be caused by genetic defect but actually caused by intracellular pathogens. Arthritis is not usable. Please use a clear define ailment for the example as there are many example to chose from. A good clear example will help defend your point. And yes, many diseases are caused by bacteria which are intracellular parasited (not all obligated), hiding in a cell is a good way to avoid the immune system. But I must say I always believed that most diseases were caused by some bacteria, fungi or virus. Relatively few diseases in comparison were actually caused by genetic defects.
I am most curious. Could you cite names so I may read their papers.
As for Class A airspace, a google search has this to say.
Class A is generally that airspace from 18,000 feet MSL up to and including 60,000 feet MSL. Aircraft traveling in this airspacemust be equipped with a two-way radio capable of communicating with Air Traffic Control (ATC) and maintain two-waycommunications with ATC while operating in this airspace. In addition, all aircraft flying in this airspace must be equipped witha transponder and automatic altitude-reporting equipment. Jet Routes are found in this airspace class and are used bycommercial aircraft when traveling between destinations. These routes cross the U.S. between airports and are designated using aJ and a 2-number suffix.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/lib...7-AppendixE.pdf
In fact all aircraft no matter how small have to file a flight plan before departure or even after the aircraft is in the air.
Alright Mr. Presumed Blue (sceptic). And are you going to say I was right?
1. Scientist have been mutating bacteria to make bio-weapons for years and everyone knows it. I'll name three: Weaponized Mycoplasma Hominis, Penetrans and Pneumoniae. All of which have been spliced by man with the AIDS virus. Look it up on line and talk to the authors.
2. Lupus, M.S. and arthritis. Why stop with these. Every immune disease is caused from intracellular pathogens. Proven by Dr. Edelson at Yale. You'll be able to find him on line.
3. These jets aren't logged in, so there aren't any records on them. Just call the airports in America and ask, but wait a minute, YOUR NOT EVEN IN THE U.S.
Do you think that your more educated about this subject then me??? 
It's very unprofessional of you to say these things, and I expected better input from you, but it's the simple, weak mind that goes with the flow and scoffs. Can you back up what you've said like I did??????
1. Scientist have been mutating bacteria to make bio-weapons for years and everyone knows it. I'll name three: Weaponized Mycoplasma Hominis, Penetrans and Pneumoniae. All of which have been spliced by man with the AIDS virus. Look it up on line and talk to the authors.
My mistake. I assume that you meant that since no data regarding Mycoplasma Pneumoniae emmergence was available, since said species has no history, so said bug must be artificial/synthetic. And as I have said, 'man made' bugs are as much 'man made' as a dog is 'man made'. We can selectively breed more virulant strains or strains with resistence to common treatment. We can't take a bug and give it the abilities to do something as complex as sucessfully infect and kill a healthy animal. Said bug must already have that ability. Current technology limit us to fine tuning that ability.
Now 'weaponised' bugs is totally different. Weaponisation is about as much as producing a more infective strain of bacteria as it is making an effective method of delivery to the target population. Take for instance the commonly known anthrax. Growing a big vat of live anthax cell, does not make it a weapon. What you need are anthrax spores. So you force said cells to sporulate. Do you have a weapon now? Nope, the spores are stuck in the mother cell. You free up the spore and go so far as to remove all the rubbish and cell debrie? Do you have a weapon now? Nope, spore are in clumps and just sit there. You will have to mill your spores so that the clumps are just the right size to breath in and stay in. Too big and the particle will be filtered out and removed by hairs and mucus in our airways. Too small and it get blown out when we breath out. That is weaponisation. Blast and delivery. You probably could find a pathogenic e coli strain and 'weaponise' it.
Mycoplasma Hominis, Penetrans and Pneumoniae...
Umm you do know the three species you have listed are a urogenital and respiratory pathogens.
Mycoplasma hominis
Mycoplasma penetrans
Mycoplasma pneumoniae
Mycoplasma
It would have been easier to use Mycobacterium tuberculosis. New multiresistence M. tuberculosis infection is probably only maginally easier to kill then a mycoplasma infection. I am not even sure why anybody (evil government and all) would go to the trouble of weakening the population that they have 'mindless controlled'.
Umm... I don't know how to reply to this. (HIV virus, AIDS is the syndrome). This is scare mongering.
If somebody wanted a real bioweapon they would use something truly evil like Ebola (Ebola Hemorrhagic Fever), Nairovirus (Crimean-Congo Hemorrhagic Fever), Vibrio cholera (Cholera), Brucella melitensis, Bacillus anthracis (Anthrax), Yersinia pestis (plague) or even Smallpox.
There is no need to play the difficult game of genetic enginneering CD4+ T cells infection ability into some host organism
The goal post has moved form
"MOST DISEASES AREN'T FROM A GENETIC DEFECT, BUT CAUSED FROM ONE OR MORE COMMON INTRACELLULAR PATHOGENS"
to
"Every (auto-?)immune disease is caused from intracellular pathogens"
That is hardly spotting!
I compare this to stating "All women are superior to men." then changing to "Most women are have verbal skills superior to men."
The first statement (mine and yours) is indefensible and the second has some foundations.
There is some prelimary evidence that the immune responce to intracellular pathogens may trigger and lead to an autoimmune responce. However I won't go so far as to use 'every', as said evidence is prelimary. I have not read a paper that says a definite link yet.
Also, unfortunately I am unable to find the Dr Edelson from Yale you are referencing. There are too many people with said surname. Could you provide a link?
As for Lupus erythematosus, multiple sclerosis and arthritis!
You have picked several of the more complicated diseases. Lupus erythematosus and Multiple sclerosis, two of the the 'Great Imitators', medical conditions that present nonspecific symptoms and may be confused with a number of other diseases. Complicated things with no clear answer. And Arthritis... which is a group of conditions where there is damage caused to the joints of the body. Anything that damages the joints can cause arthritist, even physical damage.
With these disease, genetics, environmental chemicals, drug reaction, (viral infection - Epstein-Barr virus infection with some MS patients )play a role. So why not intracellular pathogens.
*affronted* And how does my physical location affect what information I can obtained about the airspace classification of the US? If I really had too I could call JFK International Airport .
If the flight plans aren't logged and is without record, it is due to conspiracy not airspace classification as previously mentioned.
It's very unprofessional of you to say these things, and I expected better input from you, but it's the simple, weak mind that goes with the flow and scoffs. Can you back up what you've said like I did??????Say what things?
To nod my head in agreement when I disagree is weak minded.
I disagree with the statement that 'Genetic disease are caused by intracellular parasites.'
'Autoimmune desease triggered by intracellular parasites' on the other hand is worth discussing.
I scoff at the idea of spreading pathogens by a picture of contrails. Crop dusting a population so high up with third rate bug, is a bad delivery method for a captive population. Instead think 'water supply'.
please tell me you dont work with anything too toxic for all our sakes
btw - does treating steve mcqueen make him a better doctor?
and whats your definition of a "REAL GOOD SCIENTIFIC RESEARCHER" - is it perhaps one who listens to you (skewed results)
PLEASE NO MOCKERY ON THIS SITE!!!! Your showing just how young and niave you are. Dr. kelly cured Steve, but the goverrnment killed him. A good researcher is one who has been medically trained like myself and has 20 plus years experience doing laboratory work with diseases. Sorry but you don't qualify. And perhaps someone who doesn't hate foreigners????
you must be aware that you sound like a nutter - you know, little moments of clarity when you stop and think "i'm ranting again".
shouting down the opposition and throwing around insults is a sure sign of a weak mind - i'm still waiting for you to present a lucid argument.
btw - medical training means you can do medicine - it has no relevance to your ability to do research
and who is it thats supposed to hate foreigners? Me? what did i say to give you that impression? (was it the voices again?)
its time to stop acting like a 5 year old and show yourself to be the scientist you say you are
perneseblue - i'm seriously impressed with your calm attitude and logical replies
keep up the good work
dom
Hi dave,
A survey, you said, which had the possibility of turning into a real discussion (light-hearted tho I thought)…and so I'm definitely surprised to find that with all your twenty years or so of medical experience you drew first blood and set a very antagonistic, adversarial tone when people started giving their opinions…why? You also committed a lot of logical fallacies..being passionate can be blamed for this but there was no excuse to start calling people "easily fooled livestock", unprofessional, with weak mind…and Dom was right, what’s the relevance of bringing up hating foreigners? And Presumed blue? You haven’t earned that right even if it were banter and it wasn’t -he's our pernesebleu! For someone new in this forum, you've got a lot of nerve.
And going back to conspiracy theories, the thing which usually give them credence is the answer to Cui bono..who benefits? The US government? To which end is the culling of the population ever beneficial, and imagine the cost of all the logistics etc? Research? There are so many variables that how are they the evil scientists gonna put together anything. How about the conspiracy theorists themselves, the doomsayers, sensationalist media? Well, there could be something there.
And this pathogen angle, like what pernesebleu said, if they are able to set up a completely efficient delivery system, these microbes would first be vaporized and then would freeze in subzero temperatures when released into the stratosphere and if by miracle they would survive, they can be floating around- for how long we don’t know and where- it’s anybody’s guess. Why do you think crop dusters fly on such low altitudes?
I think you owe us some apology here and once again, why is this thread in the evolution forum?
cheering no more,
casandra
about the alleged conspiracy theories against mankind, well, I don't have the kind of security clearance to know more about it
but it does seem a little far-fetched to mebut the rationale behind posting this in the evolution forum is quite clear I think: it gives you another chance at increasing your post count!
Thanks perneseblue & casandra for these profound replies. Actually I don't believe in any of these strange conspiracy theories, many of them are just trash, others are funny and/or well conceived illusions.
However: In the 60ies the US military made experiments with spore dispersal in the metro system of New York (and also the Sowjets in Moscow). They wanted to know how spores are spread in such systems and just did it. Unfortunately I cannot remember which type of spores (pathogenic or not?) and the experimental setup.
At the moment I have only this paper:
The Changing Proliferation Threat
John F. Sopko
Foreign Policy, No. 105. (Winter, 1996-1997), pp. 3-20.
What I mean: The authorities are able to do very dubious things. Perhaps the inventors of the chemtrail-fraud expanded the projected setup of this type of experiments to frighten people. Or the government really did this type of experiment, but not to kill mankind (as dave2 said) but to observe airborne pathogen spread (a legal aim I guess). At least, I would put it past such organisations as CIA etc.
Anyway it is not worth to insult the others, as 'veteran', dave2 should know.
(Now I'll google for this experiments (hopefully they are not also a conspiracy theory )