The conditions essential for creating man or animal. - The way how God creates man and animal (Sep/15/2007 )

Why does your definition of God require that that being be "magical" or evidenced in nature?
I do not believe in a God that does magic, so whatever "god figure" you are talking about is your own construct not mine.
I disagree that it is narrow minded, I am trying to be open minded and I believe it is just inflammatory for you to accuse me of narrow mindedness especially when it goes both ways, are you not being narrow minded to be so adamant that there is not a God? I think on the narrow mindedness scale if you look at my comments, I am alot more open to the idea that there is not God than you are that there is one, doesn't that make you more narrow minded than I am? Also the bible is a historical record that is upheld by multiple secular documents, that does not make it the infallible word of God but it is a valid historical record of what people's beliefs about God have been in history.

I love that you brought up the whole it is easier to prove existence than non-existence, in fact that is important for one of my theories about belief... You would not, as a scientist, try to prove the hypothesis that something does not exist, it is impossible to do so, as you say, because there could always be an exception that you have not yet considered or found, so to prove something does exist is the better hypothesis from a scientific standpoint (ignoring the fact that you can't use science for this, give me a little leeway here please) Therefore the prudent scientific hypothesis to make about this issue, the better hypothesis from a scientific standpoint would be to hypothesize that there IS a God!! So I am just taking the most prudent scientific hypothesis by hypothesizing that there is a God....
Hows that for a "scientific argument"???

okay so then you tell me, how can one come up with a definition of a "good life"? How do we get the answers to the hard questions? Also, what is your comment about the ability of science to prove there is or is not a God? Do you agree that absolute proof cannot be obtained by science because it is a question outside the structure of science and that therefore belief in God or belief against God cannnot be supported by "scientific arguments"?

Can't wait to hear from you, I appreciate the discussion!!!

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What I implied was that the god figure somehow shied away for thousands years and not revealing his true face for reasons you can not explain; otherwise we can prove that he really exists. His mysterious absence makes physical prove impossible, but it is not our fault. All he needs is to show up at our door step and he can get all the believers that he wants, but he decides not to do so. Why is that? Please don’t give me the hand waving answer like we don’t know why, he is the god. May I suggest an alternative to a self proclaimed “open-minded” guy like you- this guy never exists on this universe.

I refer to narrow-minded when you did that connection. I don’t believe get the real meaning, maybe this is my wording, maybe not.

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I think it is more valid to say that science journals are NOT like scripture because science is self correcting, as mentioned before, and you would really have to be a huge conspiracy theorist to find a way for something big to slip through the cracks, I mean as soon as the paper is published people in the field try to replicate it, and they aren't all faking the data!! (or screwing it up) I don't think that things are really ever fully accepted in science based on one result in one lab.. Unfortunately scripture is not looked at with this scrutiny and in fact religion has provided a means to attempt to force people to accept the meaning that the religious leaders attribute to the scripture (so unlike a band on a gel where the result is clear, scripture is not clear and therefore is subject to interpretation) Religion also has practices in place that inhibit the self-correction (still occurs but more slowly) that is so integral to science. I think that maybe a closer example are things like love and self sacrifice and kindness etc. that show up over and over as central themes of religions, in a way the independent growth of multiple religions from diverse cultures and environments that still involve the same central ideas is in some ways like multiple labs replicating the experiment of the human's experience with God and they all came up with the same answer for what is important! (okay a little stretch but you see what I mean)... Sorry it took so long to get back to you, please let me know what you think of these ideas!!

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Don't worry bout the narrow minded thing, I guess I think it is important to be open minded so I was more sensitive to the comment than I would have been had you called me a different name...

So totally you can suggest there is no God, I have considered the possiblity myself, many times, obviously this is a difficult hurdle to get over, is there a God or not etc. What I have found for myself is that when I started to focus in on the "hard questions" that details about creation and magic crap are not necessary to understand the key to life, then when you accept the answers based on other things, not a magic God consruct, but on the real effects of living a self sacrificing loving life and the fact that this way of living has been found by so many different people from all cultural and religious backgrounds, including atheism, to be the right way to live and to know that all of these lifestyles are exemplified for me in a historical roadmap for how to deal with life (yes, I mean the bible) I cannot help but come to the conclusion that there is a God (of course based on having faith, cause science can't answer this question) and because I think Jesus works out as a really good example, and by far the easiest example/religion to get through the religious/cultural BS to find the important points (and of course cause I grew up in it) I have chosen to follow Christianity (or some personal form of it, I don't think many other "Christians" would claim me I am pretty outside your standard beliefs) AAArrgh -- RaMen However, in a way I guess your initial post was sort of on point, I totally believe there is a God who created us, but overall I think it is not all that important for the key ingredients to life, in some ways my answer is as you said, it may not matter if you believe in God, it certainly doesn't matter about having proof of a creator, what matters is that you figure out how to truly live a life of love (again, seriously, Jesus provides a really great example of this kind of life)

So you have to address my "scientific argument" from the other post I mean I used your own example! Surely you have a comment!?

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I am all for it with regard to the positive impacts on human life that various forms of religions brought in (moral standard, good behavior, kindness and giving, etc). But lets also not to forget serious damages religions caused in the history to the mankind. Also, many teachings may not be as effective as you may think they are. Dismal statistics in devoice rate, adultery, crime rate in Christian countries is a good example. I am against the expression or concept that one has to believe in some god figure in order to become a good human being, be saved or you will be condemned after the death. Atheists can be as good if not better than you believers. Instead of thinking about after life, you might as well do some good to this world while you a breathing.
My statement on religions of all forms are the most wasteful activities is based on these analysis. You don’t have to agree with me. That’s just my 2 cents.

I am totally against any creationist theory, alien theory etc. I believe in the classical big bang, universe formation and evolution theories, because I can not find any good alternative that even comes close.

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Okay dont keel over on me, but believe it or not I absolutely completely 100% agree with every statement you just made!!!

We are on the same page after all!! Don't feel bad I knew you would come around...

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welcome aboard!

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Any proud man that mocks God and his revelations, God – be glorified – may give him respite; as in His saying – be exalted – in the Quran 2: 15
اللّهُ يَسْتَهْزِئُ بِهِمْ وَيَمُدُّهُمْ فِي طُغْيَانِهِمْ يَعْمَهُونَ
The explanation: (God [Himself] does mock them, offering them [wealth] to let them wander on blindly with their arrogance.)

But any disbeliever that, with his foolish pride, challenges God, then God may immediately seize him with punishment.
Here I give two examples:
1. The ship "Titanic": look to its name, how they named it with their pride and being tyrants and proud, they thought it cannot sink and be drowned; its story is obvious.
2. The space shuttle "Challenger": look to its name, how they named it with their pride; it was like a dual: they counted from 10 to 0 and launched the shuttle; but God counted from 1 to 10 and broke their shuttle up, and distributed all its parts to all the states; I think He might have left in the sky His signature: the first letter of His Glorious Name: God or Jehovah from where you look to it.
3. And there are many other examples about what God Almighty has done to the disbelieving nations who disobeyed their apostles.

eanassir
http://universeandquran.741.com
http://man-after-death.741.com
http://quranandhebrewbible.t35.com

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If I am still able to post here by tomorrow, then your god may not exist, is this a fair statement according to your post?

A devil can only scare one who is scared of him. --me said.

PS. Dont quote that quran thing. It may mean a lot to you, to me its just a piece of paper.

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I though I am the "evil" guy here. Deep down, you are a 100 times worse person than I am.
You are using the death of Westerns and those heroic explorers who possess far better technologies than you nomads, as your talking points.
That just shows how dark you people really are.

Did those dead worship another god when they were alive?

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