How are you trained in lab? - (Mar/26/2007 )
Hey all, I just was curious...
In lab, how do you learn techniques? Do you usually have someone help you with a procedure the first time and then you continue, do you have protocols you follow, are you entirely on your own to find protocols, etc.?
I'm a Ph.D. student, and am finding I am primarily on my own. There is one post doc in our lab, but she does her own work and answers some questions when I ask, but I don't get hands on attention. In terms of actually doing the procedures, I find protocols online/books/manuals, and am pretty much on my own to get to the end product. I know this is how several of my classmates are taught, but others seem to be working under post docs, or being shown procedures and just watching...what do you guys think is best? Do you have recommendations for how to get more "hands on" help?
however i am so young to reply but i really want to share my own experience.
i am not back biting my supervisor but after 6 to seven months,i realize, his way of training is if not good but was also not bad.
his theory is that student should read read and read ,and should design his own work.should finds himself the way from where he can get information.
mean to say that he passes his student in full stressfull conditions,teach them how to remain patience with no results.
He gave maximum time to student to solve his problem.
He only guides when student reaches on miserable condition,and not finds any way out.
But in last i really feel so much gratitude for him that he really makes us a researcher.i thank to my supervisor.
well, i usually ask people to show me something atleast once and then I try it out on my own. If I dont succeed in my attempts, i would ask the person familiar with the technique to watch over me when I do the critical steps.
Also trying to speak to people about the problems can help, as everyone gives their opinion and share their trouble shooting experiences and one learns a lot this way.
IF possible, try observing people do these techniques repeatedly, observe them keenly as simple things can make a difference such as using a P1000 or P200 to pipette out 100ul of a solution. One could do with both pipettes but for some reason P1000 might be better.
good luck
agree with you scolix, observing others can help alot.
for me, i read the protocol, but it's better if someone share with me the work...it's good that you work on your own so that you can get more experience..
watch one, do one, teach one
keeps you on your toes.
any one whose job it is to teach you who tells you to read read read doesnt deserve their position
a teacher teaches, a researcher researches the two are not the same.
if someone is given their own lab to run and decides teaching the people who will be doing most of their research is a waste of time then they are an idiot.
I think there is three ways of PhD training,
1. students on their own...no one to show them anythings...they have to struggle to complete their own project
2. students have someone to show them how to do the experiements and then they do their own experiments...receive support from their mentor.
3. students have someone to show them how to do the experiments and have someone to design their experiments....they just follow the mentor's instruction.... in other words students being spoon-fed.
Hi,
When i started my PhD i was under the impression that there would be "some" training but it was otherwise a self taught degree. So far i've had absolutely no support whatsoever, and it make it extremely difficuly....BUT! it's meant that i've learnt how to think for myself...which is what research is all about. being spoon fed may help you to get your PhD, but it wont make you a better scientist
Thats my story anyway...
Good luck with your PhD
When i started my PhD i was under the impression that there would be "some" training but it was otherwise a self taught degree. So far i've had absolutely no support whatsoever, and it make it extremely difficuly....BUT! it's meant that i've learnt how to think for myself...which is what research is all about. being spoon fed may help you to get your PhD, but it wont make you a better scientist
Thats my story anyway...
Good luck with your PhD
The way I train all staff, both students and post docs is TO ASSUME NOTHING and always start at first principles. How on earth can a student learn the practicalities of western blotting alone without assistance. There are so many things that can go wrong that you have to learn from an expert who has literally done 100's of westerns.
Where I was trained in the 1970's, the drug company had a seperate "teaching lab" that you went to first when starting a job. This was a full 2 week course which an exam was set which you had to pass before starting your proper job. Techniques and principles included:
Autoclaving
Handling Radioisotopes
Cell Culture
Microbiology
Validation/Quantification
Pipetting Techniques
Animal handling
I am afraid that I do not agree with mnqcljsm that working in isolation, figuring out things for yourself, makes you a better scientist. At some stage PhD students become post docs who have to teach other students and technicians. By spending time teaching techniques both practical and theoretical, you will get a much more rounded and efficient worker. Having worked with students, technicians, post docs, Professors and 2 Noble prize winners over a 30 year period....I know this to be the case.
If we could learn just by reading a book, why would we have to do a thesis?
the best way to learn is to follow these steps :
1°) read a book. you will learn all the theory . Later it will help you to improve.
2°) show to the skilled experimentator how you would do the experiment, and he will show you how he does, and what is wrong with what you are doing.
3°) when you join a new lab, you will meet new people that does'nt do the experiment the same way as you. Watch how they do, keep their good points and forget your bad points. You will improve your technique.
you have to be humble. The more humble you are, the more you will learn.
Don't think that, because you manage once to get some results with a technique, you are an expert. You will be an expert when you will have years and years of troubles on this technique.
I was the oldest PhD student in my lab, no post-doc, only one technician.
She learned me what she knews, and when I wanted to do some experiment she does'nt know, my PI told me to go the the neighbourgs lab to watch at people who knows how to do. ALWAYS LEARN WITH SKILLED PERSONS. Don't think that you will manage with a book or with papers. The important information is always missing, because often you don't realize how much it's important.
Of course, you should write your own protocol, it's the best way to understand what you are doing. It's really sad when people put triton EDTA PMSF to lyse cells, but don't know what for !
the best way to learn is to follow these steps :
1°) read a book. you will learn all the theory . Later it will help you to improve.
2°) show to the skilled experimentator how you would do the experiment, and he will show you how he does, and what is wrong with what you are doing.
3°) when you join a new lab, you will meet new people that does'nt do the experiment the same way as you. Watch how they do, keep their good points and forget your bad points. You will improve your technique.
you have to be humble. The more humble you are, the more you will learn.
Don't think that, because you manage once to get some results with a technique, you are an expert. You will be an expert when you will have years and years of troubles on this technique.
I was the oldest PhD student in my lab, no post-doc, only one technician.
She learned me what she knews, and when I wanted to do some experiment she does'nt know, my PI told me to go the the neighbourgs lab to watch at people who knows how to do. ALWAYS LEARN WITH SKILLED PERSONS. Don't think that you will manage with a book or with papers. The important information is always missing, because often you don't realize how much it's important.
Of course, you should write your own protocol, it's the best way to understand what you are doing. It's really sad when people put triton EDTA PMSF to lyse cells, but don't know what for !
Good post missele, agree with everything especially LEARN FROM A SKILLED RESEARCHER.