Why Can't ID be Taught in the Classroom? - (Mar/16/2006 )

I would love to, Swanny, but

1. It would take away a lot of my time.
2. I have a strong suspicion that all you are looking for is points to argue about, not to understand. --I may be wrong here.
3. If you can't see clear things by yourself, at this point in your life, it is most likely some hard-wired thinking pattern that I can not change.
4. I will tell you this much for sure: It is not what you think, it is how you think, that has some abnormality in it. Perhaps even you can not do anything about it.
5. And so life goes on.. let us be happy with what each of us have.

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Your messages are becoming less and less clear, and more and more insulting. Cease and desist, and start being civil, or I will ask Bioforum to have you barred.

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swanny - i think its time you stepped back a bit and perhaps stopped posting on this subject for a couple of days - i know from personal experiance how emotive these conversations can get (mine was illness not religion but it still hit a few nerves).

its good to see you arguing your points (i dont tend to post here but i do read them) but the second you start threatening people because they dont agree with you is the same second people will start to lose their respect for you

i dont think cellcounter is being at all offensive he/she is simply giving an opinion - saying a person is stuck in their ways is not a personal attack. (threatening to have them barred is.)

i would also ask that this topic is not locked or deleted as it is a very interesting argument - we just need it to be less of a shouting match and more of a rational debate

dom

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Swanny, A barrage of clear language may not convey anything, and a small, seemingly abstract thought may convey a lot. You just have to be receptive to it.


Sorry about it. It had more to do with the time of the day.

However, if the conversation continues, there may be many such times of the day. I will be careful, but if I don't let you know what I honestly think, it would be a disservice to the conversation itself. That is the part and parcel of conversing in a public forum--being publicly applauded or insulted. If I were not ready for both, i wouldn't be here or stay here.

PS: Thanks Dom.

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Dom: thanks for your comments. I will consider them over the weekend (oh, bring on the weekend! TGIF!) But I will say this: saying someone is stuck in their ways may not be an insult, but I consider the tone of cellcounter's message to go waaaaay past saying that.

Cellcounter: The insult was this: you presume to know me, to know my mindset and to have some special insight into what might be "wrong" with me. Either that or you are too quick to hit the "Add reply" button, and you don't believe in editing. Your postings come across as someone who has a superior attitude ("If you can't see clear things by yourself, at this point in your life, it is most likely some hard-wired thinking pattern that I can not change"), but you are the same as the rest of us. You do not know everything, therefore you do NOT know for sure ("I don't think anybody in right mind would say you are not rational in general, but when it comes to faith, you have no choice but to stuff logic and rationality.", "I will tell you this much for sure: It is not what you think, it is how you think, that has some abnormality in it. Perhaps even you can not do anything about it. "). Finally, you do not demonstrate that you understand what Christians mean by the word "faith".

This message was edited before it was posted.

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Swanny,

1. Sorry about the hurt I caused you. I did presume, and I did say "I may be wrong".

2. My 'to you' postings may come across as someone who has a superior attitude. You are correct there.

3. I may be the same as 'most of the rest', but not you. I, like many others, happen to have a better grasp of philosophy of science than you, and when you try to propagate your incorrect--bordering on inane--views related to science, married to your faithfull beliefs, I feel a need to (a) correct you, and if that does not seem to work, (b) say some harsh but honest words, to see if that works.

4. I know what it means by the word 'faith'. That is why I said earlier, you are not a case of faith, you are a case of pointless points. I am sorry that I repeated it.

Anyways, the point was to make you see where you are mistaken. Not to anger you, insult you or to put you on defensive. My approaches totally failed, I am sorry for that too.

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Perhaps we should all sit back and enjoy a nice cold beer ( or chilled non-alcoholic beverage if your beliefs forbid it ). We have strayed off course here and it appears (to me, the unfriendly forum troll) that things are getting heated.

As Bob pointed out a page back, the discussion here is supposed to be about "Why Can't ID be Taught in the Classroom?".

In an attempt to get back on track - It's fine to teach it in a class room as long as:
1) it's an RE lesson
2) it doesn't enter science lessons
3) it is not presented as a scientific theory

there are probably more but it's friday and my coffee is getting cold.


define Faith:
• noun 1 complete trust or confidence. 2 strong belief in a religion. 3 a system of religious belief.
— ORIGIN Old French feid, from Latin fides.

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My thoughts about it:

School is a place where we send kids to learn rational things, be it art, social studies, or science. Teaching anything that defies rational thought would diminish the institution. We have churches and sunday schools for that purpose.

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I would like to think that it is best to make the kids aware of the such things - I am not sure if you mean religion generally or just ID
If you do mean religion, i think that's a mistake -isn't better to know how the enemy works (just messing Swanny) . Many of my friends are religious and without RE at school I would have no idea what they waffle about. Plus it gives kids of one religion to find out about others - maybe even promote ... tolerance ?

If you mean ID, carry on. Is art rational?

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