17 replies to this topic

[Micro]

I am having some problems with my PhD supervisor, which cullminated on Monday with me crying in a lab meeting (not full on balling my eyes out, just red in the face and few tears). It was not his intention to make me cry, I just got so frustratrated with his negative attitude towards my project, and to a small extent his attitude to my forward planning on my project.

Firstly, I'm embarressed about my own behaviour and control of my emotions . I feel as if I was childish to cry when he was critising me and my planning. No-one in the lab group has approached me about it, which I'm fine with since I would rather ignore the crying incident than have to acknowledge it with all my male colleges (Yes, I am the only female in an all male lab).

Secondly, (and the reason behind the incident) my supervisor devised my poject and put together the grant. Now 1 years into the project he keeps complaining that he doesn't like doing large scale projects and wants me to scale everything down. I'm working on a project that is looking at the biogeography of a particular bacteria, so the project was always going to be large scale project. His constant negativity about a project that he put together is really getting to me.

He is an old school scientist, close to retirement, and is a poor communicator... how to explain to him that I believe in this project an am up to the task of doing it (without bursting into tears)?

Cheers
M

[T C]

Hey,

Its okay, it happens.  We all get emotional at times but I would advise you to be professional and not get too emotional about work.  I think the best thing to do is to talk to your boss clearly and ask him what he wants.  In the end its his lab and you got to work on the project that he wants to run in his lab and learn in the process.  Talk in a polite manner and explain yr perspective and then tell ask him what to do next and do exactly what he says (only if you are convinced and don't walk out of his chamber till you are).  In the end he is an experienced guy and has the responsibility to get you a PhD.

It happens....don't make a big issue abt it in yrself...we all cry sometimes or the other.

Best,
TC

[haiyan]

I cired as well during my PhD study, once, due to my supervisor's negitive attitude to my thesis. But I didn't cry in front of him, I cried in my office and some of his other students told him (I guess). Most of female students were made to cry in our group and even one guy.

So, don't think too much of it. It is OK. Not a big deal. Everything will just pass.

Good luck!

[hanming86]

It's worse over here . At my place. undergrad are forced to do a 1 year long research sort of like an independent research . i have seen some of them cry because they don't get result especially nearing the end of the 1 year period. it's really sad forcing ppl to do this kinda thing and holding their degree away if they don't do it.

[GeorgeWolff]

This is the nature of grad school - and life.

[Micro]

I'm feeling a lot better now about the whole event. At least I know I'm not the only one.

My superviors negativity is still an issue... but at least if I am aware of it and what causes him to make these comments, I will be able to deal with them better in the future.

M

[Kami23]

GeorgeWolff, on May 1 2009, 11:48 PM, said:

This is the nature of grad school - and life.

But it shouldnt be and should be changed! far too much negativity in science and they wonder why not many people stay in the feild!

[GeorgeWolff]

Science by its nature is and should be negative.  We are challenged to demonstrate our case - providing compelling data by the critical exoerimentation.  You should be glad you have the old crotchy guy to do just that.

Decide if you want to be a scientist - and it appears you have done that.  So carry on.

[Kami23]

GeorgeWolff, on May 7 2009, 11:58 AM, said:

Science by its nature is and should be negative.  We are challenged to demonstrate our case - providing compelling data by the critical exoerimentation.  You should be glad you have the old crotchy guy to do just that.

Decide if you want to be a scientist - and it appears you have done that.  So carry on.

There are ways to be negative though and completely ripping someone to bit isnt the way to go about it.  Critisism should be accepted and built apon but if they leave you in peices you may not have the confidence to go on.

[T C]

Well said.

I completely agree. There is a way of going things and should be in limits.

Kami23, on May 7 2009, 05:28 PM, said:

GeorgeWolff, on May 7 2009, 11:58 AM, said:

Science by its nature is and should be negative.  We are challenged to demonstrate our case - providing compelling data by the critical exoerimentation.  You should be glad you have the old crotchy guy to do just that.

Decide if you want to be a scientist - and it appears you have done that.  So carry on.

There are ways to be negative though and completely ripping someone to bit isnt the way to go about it.  Critisism should be accepted and built apon but if they leave you in peices you may not have the confidence to go on.

[GeorgeWolff]

Grow up, please!

but more to the point - if you don't like it leave.

Edited by GeorgeWolff, 23 May 2009 - 01:35 PM.

[hanming86]

I can't help but to think that George resembles Simon from the British Got Talent show but he's right , if u really cant take it u should leave. It's a hell of a place here where i m doing my research but it's not really how ppl think about u that matter, its how u think about urself. I couldn't care less about how bad they treat me. I just wanna do my work and be happy with it. Just a thought.

Edited by hanming86, 25 May 2009 - 06:41 PM.

[Micro]

George's point (although abrupt) is spot on. Research is tough you either live with it or leave. It was a one off event and I get up every morning wanting to come to work, so I'm happy to take the good with the bad.

[Kami23]

Micro, on May 26 2009, 07:51 AM, said:

George's point (although abrupt) is spot on. Research is tough you either live with it or leave. It was a one off event and I get up every morning wanting to come to work, so I'm happy to take the good with the bad.

Unfortunatly George missed my point.  I was merely saying that noone has the right to go out of their way to tear someone to peices to feed their own ego.  Hopefully as one of the new generation of scientists coming through I can make a difference in the stuffy attitude people have within science.  I doubt Ill ever forget what it is to be the bottom rung on the ladder, and therefor wont treat people as badly as some supervisors treat their underlings today.  

Yeah research is tough but we can try to make it better for everyone by being a little more human.  I know so many talented scientists that have given up because of some nasty PI or whatever, just to be replaced by some half baked idiot that cant do the job half as well but can take a beating.

[GeorgeWolff]

It's not a matter of "rights" - such as, to your perspective, one to "abuse".  Neither is it a matter of entitlement  to be treated so ones feelings aren't hurt.  Neither term has relevance here.   Here, I believe it's a matter of maturation - encountering a world that is less concerned with the individual and their feelings and more concerned with the mission/success of the organization.
Folks pursuing employment outside of the academic lab certainly face some level of critical treatment and responses could be to work hard and stand up for themselves or suffer what they see as abuse.  Or they could find another opporutunity.   The drill sergeant, ad manager, machine shop supevisor, business section head, manuf plant manager etc. will each test their newly hired folks to weed out those who do not appear to be capable of perforing as intended and growing in the organization - even more so in the current economic climate.  No doubt the folks suffering critical treatment swear they'll never treat others in that manner - until they understand why.


You may also overinterpret the behaviour and default to a conclusion of abuse.  Even if the behaviour hurting the original poster's feelings were excessive (and we have only that person's side of it), the PI's motive might be associated with driving critical thinking or testing the mettle of the individual.  He may have been burned with a lifetime grad student.

Edited by GeorgeWolff, 29 May 2009 - 10:23 AM.