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sugar soap?


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#1 jayesh

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 08:39 AM

Hello Everyone

I have been doing some houshold decorating and I use sugar soap solution to prepare walls ready for painting .
However I don't know what is the chemical composition of sugar soap. None of the packaging ever mentions this, and I have tried searching this info on Google.

Does anyone know the chemcial composition for sugar soap?

Thank you

#2 hobglobin

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 09:35 AM

this? http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Sugar_soap
One must presume that long and short arguments contribute to the same end. - Epicurus
...except casandra's that belong to the funniest, most interesting and imaginative (or over-imaginative?) ones, I suppose.

#3 jayesh

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 01:24 PM

Many thanks for a quick reply, yes I have come across that wiki link, but its not very informative. I strongly suspect the product we buy from our local DIY shops in UK are very close to the French product St Marc in the wiki link.

The sodium carbonate ingredient is regularly recommended to wash your defrosted fridge and freezer interiors, but the terpene component is plain vague. It would have to be a product fractionated off the terpene resin. This fraction would have to be shroter chain length and suffciently esterified to make it highly soluble in water and have a surfactant property.

I maybe talking rubbish because I have no information to back up my suggestions.Besides it is very difficult to read French.

Thanks again.

#4 Tabaluga

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 05:39 PM

Just checked out this French document linked on the Wikipedia article, they say the composition is deposited at the hospital in Paris where the adress is stated. So maybe if it's important it would be worth a try to ask there, referring to this document, though i doubt they'll give a proper answer due to company issues...

Edited by Tabaluga, 03 January 2013 - 05:40 PM.

Il dort. Quoique le sort fût pour lui bien étrange,
Il vivait. Il mourut quand il n'eut plus son ange;
La chose simplement d'elle-même arriva,
Comme la nuit se fait lorsque le jour s'en va.

 


#5 jayesh

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 02:46 AM

Thank you for the interpretation of French document. It is useful information but does not answer the question. Again here I suspect netiher the manufaturer nor the hospital would give information for their own respective reasons and issues.
Soap manufacturing process and chemistry is basically quite simple, however very complex if it is going to be marketable for variety of consumers. I have noticed that most surface cleaning products list the ingredients as 'contain at least 5% surfactant' along with other additives such as a perfume, or words to that effect, sometimes the term 'anion' is also used. The main bulk solvent would be water.

For some reason I have assumed sugar soap to be a very simple and basic cleaning reagent. I am intrigued since it is relatively cheap, mostly odorless, does not froth or lather. I am, lets say distracted by the mention of 'terpins' when I would have expected the use of long chain fatty acids.

I am curious.

Many thanks for your replies and I hope someone can shed some more light on the contents of sugar soap.

#6 hobglobin

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 05:44 AM

I thought the wikipedia article is quite informative, as it states that the precise ingredients and their proportions vary between manufacturers and you need the MSDS.
So you should search for the MSDS of the product you have. The listed ingredients on the packing follows the laws for product labelling/identification and I guess in Europe it's still allowed to be quite vague for such stuff for domestic use. It's not helpful for consumers but the companies try to avoid this exact labelling because they want to keep their "trade secret" (my guess).
Anyway a search gives e.g. this:

Bird Brand (a UK sugar soap manufacturer):
SODIUM METASILICATE: 5-10%
SURFAC 60/90: 5%
TETRA POSTASSIUM PYROPHOSPATE: 5-10%

Selleys POLYPREP SUGAR SOAP LIQUID (an Australian manufacturer):
Water 7732-18-5 >60%
Sodium carbonate: 1-<10%
Sodium tripolyphosphate: 1-<10%
Ingredients determined not to be hazardous: to 100%

Perhaps you find your product too with some search or an inquiry directly at the company.
One must presume that long and short arguments contribute to the same end. - Epicurus
...except casandra's that belong to the funniest, most interesting and imaginative (or over-imaginative?) ones, I suppose.

#7 jayesh

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 02:14 AM

Thank you Hobgoblin I am very greatful. I have learnt a lot.
I had disregarded the MSDS sheets too hastily.

No doubt I would have more probing questions but knowing use of sodium carbonate, sodium phosphates and water is satisfying. And as you say other ingredients remain manufacturer's secret.

Thank you again and Tabaluga as well.

#8 pito

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 02:09 PM

Hello Everyone

I have been doing some houshold decorating and I use sugar soap solution to prepare walls ready for painting .
However I don't know what is the chemical composition of sugar soap. None of the packaging ever mentions this, and I have tried searching this info on Google.

Does anyone know the chemcial composition for sugar soap?

Thank you


Whats the brand you use?
is this the product:

http://www.delcourt....h/02.8248FT.pdf

If you don't know it, then ask it! Better to ask and look foolish to some than not ask and stay stupid.





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