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Can science and religion coexist peacefully?


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#1 Ludwik Kowalski

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Posted 26 November 2010 - 07:05 AM

Can science and religion coexist peacefully? This is a good question to start an interesting discussion. See how it was answered by many smart people at my website:

http://csam.montclai...e/donotmix.html

Ludwik Kowalski
Professor Emeritus
Montclair State University, NJ

#2 hobglobin

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Posted 26 November 2010 - 08:56 AM

Still the wrong section, it belongs to "Philosophy and Science".

One must presume that long and short arguments contribute to the same end. - Epicurus
...except casandra's that belong to the funniest, most interesting and imaginative (or over-imaginative?) ones, I suppose.


#3 sam99

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Posted 06 January 2015 - 07:32 AM

I think that they will never coexist, because there are too many difficulties.
For example, people who believe in God they don't trust to the scientists. There is no scientific facts in the Bible, we can see only legends.
Religion is a simple thing- you can believe or not believe. This is it. If we mix it up with science, we'll see the end of religion.


"My knowledge is my power. My power is my future."


#4 Phil Geis

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Posted 16 February 2015 - 07:11 PM

Sam, I'm interested in your polling data that support your claim that people who believe on God fail to trust scientists.  I know quite a few scientists, including myself, who believe in God.  As we render unto Caesar, we render unto science to rational understanding of the natural world.  

It is not belief in God that rejects science, it is the isms that attempt to claim all realms from liberalism and conservatism that reject vaccines, communism of Lysenko, etc.


Edited by Phil Geis, 16 February 2015 - 07:23 PM.


#5 Shahad

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Posted 12 April 2015 - 08:44 AM

Hello

Thank you for sharing an interesting question like this.

I read some comments from the link you posted here and with my respect to everyone I disagree with their saying. I hope my answer for the question will include a useful information for you and for everyone and gives a chance to see other answers and perspectives of smart scientist and smart people throughout the world.

Yes I do think science and religion coexist peacefully. Because if you have a chance to study the Quran which is the last testament for humanity , you will learn many scientific facts proven by scientists from all over the world, from the west to the east. Which lead many of them to convert to Islam after study, examine , analyzing these facts . One example of that , you can see

Why did Many Scientists Accept Islam ?
Prof Keith Moore converts to Islam after finding scientific facts about embryology in the Quran.

Scientific facts , discoveries, and studies in many different majors agree with the Quran. Majors such as , Astronomy and Space, Physics, Geography, Geology, Oceanography, Biology, Botany, Zoology, Physiology, Embryology, Earth Science , Health and Medicine , General science ..ect. You can learn more about that and see the original references from these websites :

The Secrets of Quran Miracles
http://kaheel7.com/eng/

The Quran Miracles Encyclopedia

http://quran-m.com

DR. Zaghlul El-Naggar
http://www.elnaggarzr.com/en/

Books
1- The Qur'an and the Modern Science – DR. Maurice Bucaille (Edited by Dr. A. A. Bilal Philips)
http://www.whyislam....dern-science-3/
2- The Geological Concept of Mountains in the Quran - DR. Zaghlul El-Naggar
http://d1.islamhouse...f_Mountains.pdf
3- Treasures in the Sunnah a Scintific Approach - Part I – DR. Zaghlul El-Naggar
http://www.islamland...he_Sunnah_1.pdf
4-Treasures in the Sunnah a Scintific Approach - Part II - 2- DR. Zaghlul El-Naggar
http://www.islamland...he_Sunnah_2.pdf
5- The Miracle in the Mosquito - Harun Yahya
http://m.harunyahya....in-the-mosquito
6- The Miracle in the Cell - Harun Yahya
http://m.harunyahya....cle-in-the-cell

YouTube
Quran and Modern Science Compatible or Incompatible ? By Dr Zakir Naik- Full Lecture
https://m.youtube.co...h?v=cPkDQvmDviQ
Science and Islam- BBC Documentary

The Golden Age of Islam under the Caliphate: Inventions, Research and Advancements


For more explanation you can see :

What's Islam? Islam in Brief – By Yusuf Estes
https://m.youtube.co...h?v=OsmYQl3xy_Y
The Quran or The Bible Which is God's Word ? Sheikh Ahmed Deedat at New York City
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cti-pXVREsk
Quran or Bible - which is God's word? Ahmed Deedat VS Anis Shorrosh (Main Part)
https://m.youtube.co...h?v=kKfWSkOGVzw
The Miracle of Miracles by Ahmed Deedat
https://m.box.com/sh...ared/ycjf080dzn
Quran: Definition of the Term
http://www.missionis...definition.html
The Challenge of the Quran
http://www.islamic-a...racle/ijaz.html
Quran’s Universality
http://www.whyislam....n-of-the-quran/
Dialogue with my unbeliever friend - By Mustafa Mahmud (with modifications)
http://www.muslimbio...ever friend.pdf

These are just a few information about Quran & science and Islam in general . If you would like to learn more , I recommend you to look for reliable and specialized sources to have accurate information. Detailed information from scientists and experts so you can remove any misconceptions.

All the Best

#6 bob1

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Posted 12 April 2015 - 12:39 PM

Interesting - a number of the facts are wrong, Keith Moore isn't a Muslim as far as I can tell, although he has worked with the Saudi Arabian government closely on a number of Q'uran and embryology topics.

 

There are also quite a number of "facts" that are wrong in the video on the Caliphate (the only one I watched) - for instance, aquaducts were in use well before Islam became a religion - the Romans had them running at least a century BC, as well as public plumbing (sewers and water supply). The Chinese invented and mass-produced gunpowder long before it came to the knowledge of the Muslim (and the rest of the western world), though the use in the Islamic world did help to spread its use into Europe.

 

As far as I know there is a lot of science that has been observed before with regards to the natural world, that has either been forgotten or has been largely dismissed as speculation because of the sources (e.g. religious writings), so this sort of observation is nothing new. For instance, the Egyptians at the time of the Pharaohs knew much about astronomy, which was lost when the system fell, and only "discovered" in the western world with the advent of the Greek culture. So too, the Chinese had equipment and tools (e.g. ducted gas, portable gas cookers) around before the Marco Polo visited, that wouldn't become common in the western world until the 1800's.



#7 hobglobin

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Posted 13 April 2015 - 02:11 AM

I agree with Bob1, Roman, Chinese, Greek history you completely ignore...

Anyway you showed that in history, Islam coexisted peacefully with science and that many inventions were made. Anyway what about today (btw a question you can also ask Christians)? And please don't post again a long row of links to proof this but write something on your own.


One must presume that long and short arguments contribute to the same end. - Epicurus
...except casandra's that belong to the funniest, most interesting and imaginative (or over-imaginative?) ones, I suppose.


#8 Shahad

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Posted 13 April 2015 - 09:42 AM

Hello bob1

Thank you for correcting the information about Dr. Keith L. Moore

I said he is Muslim because he said that he is believing in the prophet Muhammad and
the Quran as the word of Allah . Sorry for my mistake. I apologize

Question to Dr. Keith L. Moore: "Are you are a Muslim?"
https://m.youtube.co...h?v=IObOzMAQ3hI

I mentioned one wrong example about scientists who converted to Islam. But there are other correct examples of scientists who converted to Islam because the scientific facts in the Quran and because the Quran itself .They announced by them self.

European Scientist Becomes Muslim
https://m.youtube.co...h?v=DhTZKXMRmh8

British Scientist Converts to Islam | Full conversation LIVE
https://m.youtube.co...h?v=05A-xg1UjEY

Dr. Jeffrey Lang - From Atheism To Islam
https://m.youtube.co...h?v=g2ZIgn1K7E4

also , Science students in America convert to Islam
https://m.youtube.co...h?v=dVKRahUf60w

Also you can see

Dr.Maurice and the Pharaoh - Qur'an & Science
http://www.usislam.o...icebucaille.htm

Top Scientists Comments on Scientific Miracles in the Quran # Faith and Science #

https://m.youtube.co...h?v=FUUPYs0gElU

A Jewish scientist amazed by the Quran

https://m.youtube.co...QvU&mode=NORMAL


So the main idea which I would like to share is that non Muslim scientists and Muslim scientists agree that science and religion like Islam can coexist peacefully.

And If you think the video on the Caliphate is presenting wrong information that you correct it . Could you please mention your references ?

And maybe this other video is better than the previous one

BBC What Islamic World Did For Us - Documentry over ancient Islamic inventions

https://m.youtube.co...h?v=J1btMSGeZfA

and you mentioned that "aquaducts were in use well before Islam became a religion"

Islam is not a new religion found by Prophet Muhammad. And it did not started after the Romans , the Chinese .Because the message of Islam which is calling for monotheism started when the first human lived in the earth before Romans , Chinese , Pharaohs , Greek ..

A. (i) To every nation was sent a Guide or a Messenger
Al-Qur'an 35:24
Al-Qur'an 13:7

if would like to know more about this case , you can see :

Islam is not a new religion! By Dr Zakir Naik
https://m.youtube.co...h?v=qVVTDOPWZhg

INTRODUCTION
Similarities / Similar Teachings in the Quran and the Bible which Muslims follow but Christians don't
http://www.irf.net/i...ristianity.html

Could human change these books ?
http://m.islamweb.or...atwaId&Id=89800

Also can you please mention the name of the religion which allowed people to dismissed science because their sources such as "religious writing" ? And the references please ?


After watching these videos , Lectures , and articles we can see that knowing the creator and science and doing inventions, scientific research and discoveries can coalesce together by people. people who lived in the past until now . and still we as human have few information about the world

"And of knowledge ,you (mankind) have been given only a little " The Noble Quran English Translation of the meanings and commentary.

So I think we are still Learning. "Learning is a lifelong process " Peter Druker

Edited by Shahad, 13 April 2015 - 09:55 AM.


#9 Shahad

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Posted 13 April 2015 - 03:18 PM

Hi hobglobin

Everyone can be Ignorant in a specific thing . But i think no one can be completely Ignorant ! Except arrogant people who think that they know everything in the world when they "know nothing"!

Ignorant isn't a problem if we keep learning and be open mind to the new finds we face ,and have willing to change for better. So , we will solve our ignorance in many cases in life.

I think it is very important that i share the references of my information , even if it is a long list of references . So everyone can see the evidence and know the truth about the issue. “follow the evidence wherever it leads ” Socrates , I agree with his statement .

Because many people speak without "knowledge" or "evidence" which make their saying just claims. And these claims if it is not true can make us Ignorant and far away from the facts about the issue that we discuss .This is why references can be important to proof and to correct the information.

Your question : what about today ?

There are many Muslim scientists and students from all over the world who are making many progress in scientific field also other different fields beside science like others .

you can see

1-Dr Hayat Sindi , Saudi medical researcher , to be named a UNESCO Goodwill Ambassador
http://www.unesco.or...Hash=2d12f802a8

“Something the size of a postage stamp, costing just a penny a piece, could be a medical breakthrough that will save millions of lives. According to Hayat Sindi, when this tiny piece of paper enters an impoverished African village, the power of an entire diagnostic lab has arrived.” National Geographic.

http://www.nationalg...os/hayat-sindi/

2- Best Muslim Scientific Achievements in 2014
http://www.onislam.n...ts-in-2014.html

3- 16-Year-Old Iraqi Immigrant Solves 300 Year Old Mathematical Problem, “The Bernoulli Numbers”.
http://www.thelocal.se/20090528/19710


Good Luck

#10 bob1

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Posted 14 April 2015 - 04:50 PM

I mentioned one wrong example about scientists who converted to Islam. But there are other correct examples of scientists who converted to Islam because the scientific facts in the Quran and because the Quran itself .They announced by them self.

So the main idea which I would like to share is that non Muslim scientists and Muslim scientists agree that science and religion like Islam can coexist peacefully.

Nothing new there, lots of people change religion and/or belief every day, even becoming religious while being scientist is relatively common.

And If you think the video on the Caliphate is presenting wrong information that you correct it . Could you please mention your references ?

and you mentioned that "aquaducts were in use well before Islam became a religion"

Islam is not a new religion found by Prophet Muhammad. And it did not started after the Romans , the Chinese .Because the message of Islam which is calling for monotheism started when the first human lived in the earth before Romans , Chinese , Pharaohs , Greek ..

A. (i) To every nation was sent a Guide or a Messenger
Al-Qur'an 35:24
Al-Qur'an 13:7

I'm in no doubt about the contribution of the Muslim world to the enlightenment in mediaeval times, and their current contributions, so I'm not disputing most of what is said, just that some of it is mis-represented. For instance, it is well known that the rudiments of calculus were around in the time of the Egyptian empire (circa 2000 bc), which is well before the Islamic schools came into being. IN addition, the aquaducts in Cordoba (I think that was the city mentioned) were roman aquaducts... What was presented was that these were Muslim contributions to the city, which they weren't. I'm not going to watch the video again, but you should check the information presented for yourself if you want to be a scientist - even wikipedia will give you the basics here! Critical thinking and scepticism are key to being a scientist.

Any argument that Islam was started as a major religion before the Qur'an is spurious, there is absolutely no proof of it, and it could equally be argued the same for any religion (if you were posting this about Christianity I would argue the same, although there I would argue re prior to Jesus). As a matter of fact, like many mono-theistic religions, Islam is an Abrahamic religion, which makes it on a par with Judaism, Christianity etc, and that is all that can be said. Arguments that all the prophets preached Islam, as is taught (I think) in Islam, are equally spurious, as they could in fact have been (and probably were) preaching any of the Abrahmic religions as they all have the same basic tenets.


Also can you please mention the name of the religion which allowed people to dismissed science because their sources such as "religious writing" ? And the references please ?

It wasn't a religion I was talking about, but science dismissing ideas that had been presented in other contexts. For example, the anti-malarial Artemisnin (well, the source plant) was known about by the Chinese at least 500 years ago, but the use was only re-discovered in the 1970s.

So I think we are still Learning. "Learning is a lifelong process " Peter Druker

Can't argue with that...

#11 hobglobin

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Posted 17 April 2015 - 10:16 AM

Well when you post links and share videos here, how do others know that this is evidence of "the truth"? Actually I'm too ignorant for religion and the hstory of religions to judge here. But a splendiferous looking youtube video of unkown source won't convince people here. And my opinion is that there is often no final truth, even if a religion claims this (a topic which leads to conflicts between science and religion and surely needs discussion).

 

And surely there are as many interested and "brainy" people in muslim countries as in other countries and great scientists work there. Hopefully they also have the same opportunites to develop individually and to do freely what they want as in other countries (but some of the links were helpful for me here, thanks).


One must presume that long and short arguments contribute to the same end. - Epicurus
...except casandra's that belong to the funniest, most interesting and imaginative (or over-imaginative?) ones, I suppose.


#12 Shahad

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Posted 19 April 2015 - 11:50 AM

Hello bob1

You said "Nothing new there, lots of people change religion and/or belief every day, even becoming religious while being scientist is relatively common."

I agree with you , people can change their religion and beliefs . But some people accepts beliefs without any evidence to proof their believes. other people accepts beliefs and faith that rely on logic , evidence to proof , and challenge like Quran's challenge .


"I'm in no doubt about the contribution of the Muslim world to the enlightenment in mediaeval times, and their current contributions, so I'm not disputing most of what is said, just that some of it is mis-represented. For instance, it is well known that the rudiments of calculus were around in the time of the Egyptian empire (circa 2000 bc), which is well before the Islamic schools came into being. IN addition, the aquaducts in Cordoba (I think that was the city mentioned) were roman aquaducts... What was presented was that these were Muslim contributions to the city, which they weren't. I'm not going to watch the video again, but you should check the information presented for yourself if you want to be a scientist - even wikipedia will give you the basics here! Critical thinking and scepticism are key to being a scientist."


If you could please mention your references which deny the information in that video ?

Thank you for advising me. I am doing my best to check the information presented here not only for myself but also for others. So I share scientist , scholars , and experts explaining. Even if I do my best to check the information , I may do mistakes. And my conscience and Allah fearing which I ask Allah for every time in my prayers will lead me to correct my mistakes and be thankful for the person who made the correction.

If I want to be a scientist I will never use Wikipedia to do a serious scientific research , because Wikipedia is not a reliable source even for basics information. I do not want to mislead myself and others. I suggest you when you chose to read basics information from Wikipedia also look for other reliable sources like scholars, experts , and scientists sources . who have knowledge about their fields in science and religion such as Islam so you can find accurate information.

What's Wrong with Wikipedia? Harvard Guide to using Sources
http://isites.harvar...=icb.page346376


"Critical thinking and scepticism are key to being a scientist."

I agree with your statement . we can see for example , Rene Descartes , who is a famous French philosopher and scientist . He called the Father of Modern Philosophy . He started with the premise of doubt. He decided to doubt everything . This lead him to reach certainty in the Creator.

His famous philosophical statement is " I think , therefore I am "

"I think, therefore I am proves that I exist, but I am an imperfect, flawed mortal man. If I were my own creator, naturally I would have made myself perfect. This proves that I did not create myself, and if I did not, than who did? God. "Rene Descartes
"I have a conception of what perfection is, though I am not perfect. Okay, so where does this idea of perfection come from? Not from me, of course. After all, I'm imperfect, and perfection cannot come from something as so patently imperfect as I. So there must be a perfect being, and that is God." Rene Descartes

and we agree that critical thinking key to be a scientist so , I would like to recommend you to see : Scientists critique Darwins theory with using scientific evidence.

A Critique of Darwinist Icons (Icons of Evolution)

https://m.youtube.co...h?v=te3aShKST1A


"Any argument that Islam was started as a major religion before the Qur'an is spurious. there is absolutely no proof of it"

I would ask you what is your evidences which support your saying ? so we can consider it as a fact not a wrong claim?

Can you do the challenge of the Quran which is the final universal message ?

( و إن كنتم في ريب مما نزلنا على عبدنا فأتوا بسورة من مثله وادعو شهداءكم من دون الله إن كنتم صادقين )

" And if you ( Arab pagans , Jews, and Christians ) are in doubt concerning that which we have sent down (i.e. the Quran) to Our slave ( Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم ) , then produce a Surah ( chapter) of the like thereof and call your witnesses ( supporters and helpers ) besides Allah , if you are truthful." Surah Al- Baqarah. The Noble Quran English translation of the meanings and commentary.

Can you refute non Muslim and Muslim Scientists from different scientific majors who agree with the scientific facts in the Quran , which supported by scientific evidences which is exist in our life ? Can you refute other challenges of Quran such as linguistic Challenge ?

The Qurans Challenge : A Literary & Linguistic Miracle
http://www.hamzatzor...imitable-quran/


Your judgment about Islam cannot be fair and true , if you cannot refute the evidence of Islam such as Quran . The Quran which contains ayat such as to every nation was sent a Guide or a messenger 35:24

In addition , i would like to share examples (from other sources ) beside Quran. These examples proofs that Islam started before the Quran . Islam which means surrender, submission , obedience , sincerity and peace with Allah .
Scholars , who have knowledge in their fields explain these examples with evidences.

1- What Did Jesus Really Say ?

The great messenger of God , Jesus , says: And this is life eternal , that they might know you the only true God , and Jesus Christ , whom you have sent John 17 : 3
http://d1.islamhouse..._really_say.pdf

2- Monotheism in Hinduism Scriptures.

https://m.youtube.co...h?v=eX9lVfudQkw

3- The Concept of Monotheism Since Ancient Times in Ancient Egypt & Hinduism .

http://www.submissio...ient_times.html


4- Prophet Musa (AS) And Seas Splitting in two. Musa & Pharaohs who know the concept of monotheism.
http://www.miracleso...torical_02.html


5- Traces of monotheism in paganism tribes. where it comes from ?



6- The teaching of Gautama Buddha & the concept of monotheism.

https://m.youtube.co...h?v=IvCU-4TE-ec

More details :

You can see :

The last messenger mentioned In Buddhist Scriptures

https://m.youtube.co...h?v=-yARdxrH2Fc

The last messenger in Judaism, Christian and Hinduism Scriptures - Dr. Zakir Naik
https://m.youtube.co...h?v=PRw25KZG0vE

What the Bible Says About Muhammad ?
https://m.youtube.co...h?v=HzPbS0RCvBE

Jewish Professor Admits All Prophets Were Muslim
https://m.youtube.co...h?v=mlLZKUuc2jk

You can do your research on these religions from other specialist sources and look for the evidences if you want to be sure. So you can learn about monotheism in other religions before Quran revelation.


"and it could equally be argued the same for any religion (if you were posting this about Christianity I would argue the same, although there I would argue re prior to Jesus). As a matter of fact, like many mono-theistic religions, Islam is an Abrahamic religion, which makes it on a par with Judaism, Christianity etc, and that is all that can be said."

I agree with Christianity and Judaism have the concept of monotheism which is also in Islam. But these religions are different from each other, they are not equal . Therefore you cannot say Islam is an Abrahamic religion, which makes it on a par with Judaism, Christianity etc


To know why ?

1- Pure Monotheism of Islam vs Pagan beliefs and Superstitions.
https://m.youtube.co...h?v=C3oR3N8VqCk

2- The Nullifiers of Islamic Monotheism 1
http://www.islamweb....ic-monotheism-i

3- Fate of non- Muslim and those who never heard about Islam
http://www.islamweb....atwaId&Id=86756

4- Was Muhammad the author of the Quran ?
http://www.islamweb....or-of-the-quran

Good luck

Edited by Shahad, 19 April 2015 - 07:52 PM.


#13 Shahad

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Posted 19 April 2015 - 06:09 PM

Hello hobglobin

You said "Well when you post links and share videos here, how do others know that this is evidence of "the truth"?

They can know these evidences which shows the truth of Islam and science, if they see the references which provide scientific websites such as NASA . For example , you can see these articles :

1-Seven Scientific Facts Testify that Mohamed is Sincere.

There are 26 references you can check. such as : A NASA Landsat composite of Saudi Arabia, www.geology.com. The CIA World's Facts. Combined climate and carbon-cycle effects of large-scale deforestation, Department of Global Ecology, Carnegie Institution, Stanford, February 24, 2007. Richard Kithil, Fundamentals of Lightning Protection, National Lightning Safety Institute, www.lightningsafety.com. Yogesh Chander, Kuldip Kumar, Sagar M. Goyal and Satish C. Gupta, Antibacterial Activity of Soil-Bound Antibiotics, American Society of Agronomy, Crop Science Society of America, and Soil Science Society of America, 2005.

http://kaheel7.com/e...amed-is-sincere

2- The collapse of the universe.
"Most scientific studies point out that the universe had expected therefore it will collapse. The Holy Quran mentions this fact clearly in several verses" Abduldaem Al-Kaheel

http://kaheel7.com/e...f-the-universe-

References:
1. Universe Reborn Endlessly in New Model of the Cosmos, www.nationalgeographic.com, April 25, 2002.
2.http://news.bbc.co.u...000/2347651.stm
3. http://news.bbc.co.u...7000/727678.stm
4.http://news.bbc.co.u...000/2007441.stm

Also they can search about the scientists and scholars who have knowledge that allowed them to proof the scientific facts which is in the Quran . who use the scientific evidence which is exist in our life.




"Actually I'm too ignorant for religion and the hstory of religions to judge here."

We can be Learner and seeker of knowledge about religion , history of religions , and the world if we ask , read , listening , and be open minded to people who have knowledge such as different scientists ,scholars , and experts who are from all over the world . and by analyzing information that we take it from reliable sources and specialized sources from internet and books we can learn the truth and remove misconceptions.

Misconceptions which we may have because we ask wrong people who do not know ! For example , if I have question in math I will ask math teacher not physics teacher. because physics teacher may give me wrong answer! or say something without proof or say opinions which is different from facts.

The same If I want to learn about religion like Islam , I will ask teachers, scientists ,scholars , and experts in Islam to find accurate answers . In addition , we can learn outside of school if we are open minded because it is true that " Learning is lifelong process peter" Drucker.

And for me, seeking knowledge an obligation upon Muslim. " the superiority of the one who has knowledge over the one who merely worships is like the superiority of the moon over every other heavenly body." The Prophet explaining. Knowledge in Islam and how to seek it
http://www.islamweb....-how-to-seek-it

"and say : My lord! Increase me in Knowledge"{ Quran, 20;114} Amen


"But a splendiferous looking youtube video of unkown source won't convince people here.

If there is unknown sources, could you show me ?
I mention the references so we can see it to be sure about the information.

"And my opinion is that there is often no final truth, even if a religion claims this (a topic which leads to conflicts between science and religion and surely needs discussion)."

With my respect to you , your opinion is not true . If you do not learn about Sciences and Islam, you can not give fair judgment and accurate statement in this case.


"And surely there are as many interested and "brainy" people in muslim countries as in other countries and great scientists work there. Hopefully they also have the same opportunites to develop individually and to do freely what they want as in other countries (but some of the links were helpful for me here, thanks)."

Welcome any time And Good Luck.

Edited by Shahad, 19 April 2015 - 06:24 PM.


#14 bob1

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Posted 20 April 2015 - 08:50 PM

Hello bob1

You said "Nothing new there, lots of people change religion and/or belief every day, even becoming religious while being scientist is relatively common."

I agree with you , people can change their religion and beliefs . But some people accepts beliefs without any evidence to proof their believes. other people accepts beliefs and faith that rely on logic , evidence to proof , and challenge like Quran's challenge .

But the point here is that belief is illogical - the evidence for a god (or gods for that matter) is not present. So far from scientific principles the universe can be explained by testable hypotheses that hold true for the observable universe, this by logic refutes the presence of any god
 

If you could please mention your references which deny the information in that video ?

Thank you for advising me. I am doing my best to check the information presented here not only for myself but also for others. So I share scientist , scholars , and experts explaining. Even if I do my best to check the information , I may do mistakes. And my conscience and Allah fearing which I ask Allah for every time in my prayers will lead me to correct my mistakes and be thankful for the person who made the correction.

a 2 minute google search will get you the information you need on the aqueducts. As to calculus try the ones here:http://www-history.m...f_calculus.html
 

If I want to be a scientist I will never use Wikipedia to do a serious scientific research , because Wikipedia is not a reliable source even for basics information. I do not want to mislead myself and others. I suggest you when you chose to read basics information from Wikipedia also look for other reliable sources like scholars, experts , and scientists sources . who have knowledge about their fields in science and religion such as Islam so you can find accurate information.

What's Wrong with Wikipedia? Harvard Guide to using Sources
http://isites.harvar...=icb.page346376

Wikipedia is not a good source in itself -always check the references supplied at the end of the page! However, with this in mind, it can be used as a basic source to gain the rudiments of many topics.
 

"Critical thinking and scepticism are key to being a scientist."

and we agree that critical thinking key to be a scientist so , I would like to recommend you to see : Scientists critique Darwins theory with using scientific evidence.

A Critique of Darwinist Icons (Icons of Evolution)

https://m.youtube.co...h?v=te3aShKST1A

That's one scientist (not the plural), who is widely considered to be wrong. The evidence he presents is not evidence of lack of Darwinian evolution (e.g. cambrian explosion was a long long time prior to the evolution of modern phyla such as animals, so can't be used to deny evolution, especially as some of the forms have persisted to the modern day), he is correctly critiquing the presentation of evolution in science education.
 

"Any argument that Islam was started as a major religion before the Qur'an is spurious. there is absolutely no proof of it"

I would ask you what is your evidences which support your saying ? so we can consider it as a fact not a wrong claim?

I could equally ask you for your proofs that Islam was a major religion before The Prophet (pbuh)...note that I won't accept an answer that "the Qu'ran says so" - the Bible doesn't mention Islam, neither do any of the other works of similar age that I am aware of (Roman writings, Greek writings, Egyptian...), yet a lot of these colonized the areas which would now be considered the heart of Islam. Zoroastrianism appears to have been the first of the monotheistic religions from that region.
Note that what we are asking here is about SCIENCE, not the vailidity of any religion... Also note that we were talking about the contribution of Islam to science, and you posted a video that mis-represented some facts. The Islamic schools and technology didn't appear until well into the 700's (with Harun Al-Rashid I think), so artefacts that are approximately 500 years older than that can't be easily claimed as Muslim I would say.

Can you do the challenge of the Quran which is the final universal message ?

( و إن كنتم في ريب مما نزلنا على عبدنا فأتوا بسورة من مثله وادعو شهداءكم من دون الله إن كنتم صادقين )

" And if you ( Arab pagans , Jews, and Christians ) are in doubt concerning that which we have sent down (i.e. the Quran) to Our slave ( Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم ) , then produce a Surah ( chapter) of the like thereof and call your witnesses ( supporters and helpers ) besides Allah , if you are truthful." Surah Al- Baqarah. The Noble Quran English translation of the meanings and commentary.

Can you refute non Muslim and Muslim Scientists from different scientific majors who agree with the scientific facts in the Quran , which supported by scientific evidences which is exist in our life ? Can you refute other challenges of Quran such as linguistic Challenge ?

Your judgment about Islam cannot be fair and true , if you cannot refute the evidence of Islam such as Quran . The Quran which contains ayat such as to every nation was sent a Guide or a messenger 35:24

I'm not judging Islam at all, I'm judging your interpretation of scientific fact...If you want to be a scientist and come on a science forum, be prepared with facts, not supposition. Note that many people have done exactly the challenge you set out above, the most famous being Scientology (L Ron Hubbard), The Flying Spaghetti Monster (its a parody, but some people follow), and Jedi (George Lucas, not a parody and not intended to be a religion, but people are still people...).




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