48 replies to this topic

[casandra]

GeorgeWolff, on Sep 8 2009, 09:49 PM, said:

Casandra - there's no need to show your inexperience and usual hatreds further. This discussion was for vaccine for a pandemic flu - and I hope at least you've learned the meaning of the term - pandemic.

Please - would you or would you not take the vaccine.

A fine way to dodge all the issues I raised and questions I asked had you been at the receiving end of eberth’s attacks…instead you dole out your usual ad hom one liners against me, eh George? And it seems that “pandemic” caused a lot of confusion here (darn the WHO) so why the heck couldn’t I just define it the way I want to so go ahead and sue me.

And you’re absolutely right, I’m inexperienced in a lot of ways but I’m probably relatively young compared with you guys. Hopefully, by the time I reach your age, wiser, nobler and kinder people have already shown me the way and then it would be my turn not to look down upon but instead to help out or even inspire the young and inexperienced to do better and more importantly learn from all the mistakes of those before them…(oh yeah, please play Bach’s Air…).

If I had shown any hatred (although this is too strong a word- anger is better) it would be against arrogance and callousness, condescension and pretentiousness, sexism and chauvinism..let’s throw in injustice and corruption bla bla bla bla….and when have I shown hatred or unjustified/unprovoked anger in this forum….you can set up a poll for this?

And whether I take the vaccine or not, do you really care? Actually, I'm still undecided..not convinced either way but I still have time. By george, George….you really hurt my feelings this time and now I am traumatised….

[eberthella]

I think we understand you are not familiar with the concepts here and would rather talk about your feelings, a fairly common practice as you're rarely addressed a technical subject in a productive manner.

So Georgie - it looks like you, swanny and I will not avail ourselves of the vaccine. Homebrew and casandra have not observed an intent.

[HomeBrew]

If all you're looking for is a poll of who will or will not get the swine flu vaccine, why don't you start a poll in a new thread entitled "Will you get the swine flu vaccine"? This thread, entitled "Concern for swine flu vaccination - from BMJ" encourages people to voice their concerns about the vaccination.

[Dr Teeth]

I, and my family, plan on getting the vaccine and the annual flu shot, but not because of some panic-driven fear that I will suddenly get the swine flu and die. Instead, it is because we have an infant and feel a responsibility to protect him from illness. I work in the largest clinical research facility in the world. There are several thousand people (sick and well) and I take a crowded metro to/from work, so I feel that I would have a higher probability of catching any flu than the average person. I am aware that, like any medication not scrutinized by the FDA, there are safety concerns; however, as I mentioned I feel the risk/benefit ratio for my family is good, even if you perceive the "risk" to be low. I also feel that as scientists, we should have some faith in other scientists. What does it say to the public when we won't take our own medications?

For those of you who are not planning on being immunized, is there a particular reason, other than feeling that that it is unnecessary? Do any of you have newborns? Do you think that the risk of side effects outweighs the risk for illness? Also, if, hypothetically, the swine flu started becoming a serious threat, would you then get the vaccine or would the fear of side effects still weigh out?

Edited by Dr Teeth, 09 September 2009 - 05:39 AM.

[pito]

GeorgeWolff, on Sep 4 2009, 11:06 PM, said:

The issue I hoped to raise was that the health care profession itself would in large part refuse the vaccine. The immediate issue of concern stated was safety - and I had added my belief that safety and necessity were the factors.

How many here would take the vaccine if it were available tomorrow?

And do they refuse to take it because they think the vaccin is "bad" , more side-effects then normal, or they just refuse it, since they do not see the point in taking a vaccin against the flu?


Because I want to point something out on that matter: what with the "normal" vaccin each year?

Each year doctors and nurses are "asked" to take the vaccin, but in general those people do not take it ( I am speaking about belgian nurses and docs.. do not know how it is in other countries).

[casandra]

eberthella, on Sep 9 2009, 06:46 AM, said:

I think we understand you are not familiar with the concepts here and would rather talk about your feelings, a fairly common practice as you're rarely addressed a technical subject in a productive manner.

So Georgie - it looks like you, swanny and I will not avail ourselves of the vaccine. Homebrew and casandra have not observed an intent.

Great....my pre-lunch coffee with a dash of bash...Let me get through to your delusions, eberthella. I’d never be soo pretentious claiming to offer technical expertise that I don’t have in a thread that's not even a tech query. At least my arguments and opinions are honest and hopefully valid and as Homebrew stated, this thread is about flu vaccine concerns. It would have been more productive had you not contributed much to its disruption and digression (I'm just as guilty so I’m not excusing myself). And I apologise sincerely to those who have contributed sanely to this discussion.

And what’s wrong about feelings? Weren’t you bemoaning the fact that the swine flu classification of WHO as a pandemic is irresponsible bec of the possible misuse of the media by exploting public fear? Therefore this issue itself is laden with emotions. Besides I like having feelings…they teach us empathy and humanity (must I always point out the obvious here?) so you shld try to find some sometime, I mean, before it's too late.....but the extent of my feelings for you, eberthella …read my eyes……. so is it Georgie now? Tell me it ain’t so George….

ok…preparing now for the next siege, hopefully after lunch (hmmm...where are my powerful weapons of massive inexperience and technical inexpertise ?)….….

[casandra]

Dr Teeth, on Sep 9 2009, 09:32 AM, said:

I, and my family, plan on getting the vaccine and the annual flu shot, but not because of some panic-driven fear that I will suddenly get the swine flu and die. Instead, it is because we have an infant and feel a responsibility to protect him from illness. I work in the largest clinical research facility in the world. There are several thousand people (sick and well) and I take a crowded metro to/from work, so I feel that I would have a higher probability of catching any flu than the average person. I am aware that, like any medication not scrutinized by the FDA, there are safety concerns; however, as I mentioned I feel the risk/benefit ratio for my family is good, even if you perceive the "risk" to be low. I also feel that as scientists, we should have some faith in other scientists. What does it say to the public when we won't take our own medications?

For those of you who are not planning on being immunized, is there a particular reason, other than feeling that that it is unnecessary? Do any of you have newborns? Do you think that the risk of side effects outweighs the risk for illness? Also, if, hypothetically, the swine flu started becoming a serious threat, would you then get the vaccine or would the fear of side effects still weigh out?

Hi Dr Teeth,

I also work within a hospital setting so I've been getting seasonal flu shots a few years and I've never been sick. The vaccines were either effective or it's because I have the immune system of a sasquatch. The hospital, of course is promoting the vaccine drive e.g. thru newsletters, memos, posters everywhere etc not only because we're high risk personnel but also to reduce absenteeism during the regular flu season and esp if we do get the second wave where personnel is needed the most. Besides, it would be difficult not to be vaccinated bec they set up these roving clinics everyday and people come in droves during break periods. You're passing by and you see a colleague one moment....do some chitchat and the next moment, you're signing a consent form and a needle is being poked into your arm.......in the end, I'll probably get both vaccines....I just wish it would just be one time tho....

[vetticus3]

i have never had a flu vaccine... because well, i don't like shots, and after every vaccine i get sick. Also, i think i had the swine flu 2 weeks ago (not as bad as regular flu... but it did last over a weekend, so that sucked). By the way, i work in a hospital (setting)... and i'm pretty sure i got the flu when a nurse decided to sneeze all over me on a bus (EWWWWW!!!!!!! she should have known better... but no, she just sat there with stuff dripping out of her nose.)

i really do not understand the "desperate" need for the vaccine. this H1N1 strain has been around for decades, it hit hard back in the 60s, and was known to be running amok in the 80s and 90s.
The people at risk for this strain are the elderly, but they're at risk for every strain of flu. They are also the group of people who should have the antibodies for the strain already.
The other groups are the immunocomprimised, and the very young... which, according to my understanding, shouldn't have the vaccine anyway.
Haven't more people died from the regular flu that was out this season?

The rush in getting this vaccine out seems... enforced by the media.

Meanwhile, it's nice to have feelings... it's the invisble hand that drives the world. there is also something called respect, and polite disagreement. this has never been the place for being an internet tough guy, and just because this is an anonymous forum, doesn't mean people can behave in a manner that they would not do so if face to face. so if someone on this board has a problem with the way people feel, or if they feel the need to disrespect the members of this board, perhaps they should find somewhere else to be.

V

[GeorgeWolff]

I have to laugh - casandra does go on - now talking to herself.

Pito - the reason cited was concern for safety. My bias is that they also see the risk of H1N1 being small - so it's a risk need judgement.

And eberthella - I never said I'd take the vaccine or not. In fact (and you're right) I would not.

[casandra]

GeorgeWolff, on Sep 9 2009, 05:03 PM, said:

I have to laugh - casandra does go on - now talking to herself.

Because you don't wanna talk to me you only give me ad homs......didn't know you could laugh.....my good deed for the day then..........

[GeorgeWolff]

This is a technical subject and you are not prpeared for its discussion. As with eberthella, I have no desire to talk about your feelings.

[GeorgeWolff]

[quote name='GeorgeWolff' date='Sep 9 2009, 01:59 PM' post='35846']
This is a technical subject and you are not prepared for its discussion. As with eberthella, I have no desire to talk about your feelings.

I believe you'll find more of an audience in the nontechnical online community discussion.

[casandra]

GeorgeWolff, on Sep 9 2009, 01:59 PM, said:

This is a technical subject and you are not prepared for its discussion. As with eberthella, I have no desire to talk about your feelings.

I believe you'll find more of an audience in the nontechnical online community discussion.

oh sure, whether you like it or not ....you are not bioforum nor a moderator to tell me where I can and can not go...you aint got that power dude.. ...but thanks for your suggestion.......

[GeorgeWolff]

No one is telling you to leave. Of course, you may stay and show your ignorance and "feelings" at your discretion.

[casandra]

GeorgeWolff, on Sep 9 2009, 07:51 PM, said:

No one is telling you to leave. Of course, you may stay and show your ignorance and "feelings" at your discretion.

Then I'm glad that it's clear now...for a moment there I thought that your name changed to red....so I prefer to stay here and revel in your arrogance...and I am soo "feeling" it... .......